Slashdot comment

If I was trying to suck up to an Indian audience, I would tell them Indian programmers were the best too.

Don't generalize, so you mean to say all Australians are racial?? (based on the Sydney riot's)

Why wouldn't he? When I addressed a group in China I praised what I had seen of the Chinese railways compared with what I knew of Australian railways.

New Article - Bill Gates gets lynched by 4000 programmers after he called indian programmers crap...

"In my personal view india can never be as good as American programmers" where the words uttered before the croud got restless and rushed the stage...

BTW the above senerio never happened... Bill was never lynched

In relating to the slashdot artical mentioned above...

I think we (and by that I mean managers) need to start weighing up the costs properly and stop with this stupid idea that it's good because everyone else is doing it...

(Some gov't departments IT budgets needed to triple to afford outsourcing, but they where forced to do it because that was the gov't standard...) Also we ourselves need to stop covering up for other peoples mistakes... Lets face it if we start covering up others mistakes soon that's all we will be doing, and because we will no longer be doing our own work it will look like we're lazy and the idiots will be given the promotions, lets for a second forget the whole idea that result is everything (I know as technical people that can be hard) and start playing the games properly and get our industry back...

Their work SUCKS very much. I've had to clean up after them and once I've stopped laughing at how bad their code was I despaired and then, invariably, I rewrote it all.

All this on three occasions!

When I was working in LA, USA I have seen an Aussie who nearly screwed up a project once and also I had to redo lot of work in another project so that does not mean I say all Aussie are bad programmers? I have come across lot of good Aussie developers too.Yes I have seen bad Indian developer and also damn good ones.

By the way I am not supporting off shoring because even my job is at stake. But what I am saying is don't generalize just because someone is bad full country is bad.

I am sure that the ones Microsoft hire are brilliant, they generally have been very successful with hiring.

But thats possibly due to volume. India should have the best cricket players in the world, what with a population of 1 billion cricket nuts, natural abilities are just statistics.

This really has nothing to do with offshoring, or the alleged dubious quality of offshore development.

Dear Bill,

There's no point in sucking up to Indian developers, they're not paying for your products anyway.

Does anyone remember what David Murray, the ex-Managing Director of the Commonwealth bank said?

He said Microsoft had failed to deliver on their promises, in that promised productivity gains had not been felt from the use of IT.

Basically this states that Bill Gates is just a spruiker!

Sure the best programmers from Microsoft's Redwood office come from India, something like the top 4% of India's best IT workers (with degrees from the handful of good Indian universities) go to America! Frankly offshoring isn't cutting the bacon for them so the leave for America to earn better money.

This top 4% is a very small number, something in the order of 1000's.

Do the rest of the Indian work force meet Microsoft's expectations, hell no! But that doesn't stop him from giving them false beliefs.

Firstly, yes I am a recruiter !

One thing people often forget is the culture fit. We know India is a very very competitive country, therefore the people in IT are very highly skilled, however the issues become obvious when you interview some of these people and their English is poor (and that's being nice).

If they struggle to speak our language, then how can they fit into the team they will be working with; what will the code look like?; will they undertsand the project and the business drivers etc?

I would like to know your thoughts on the above as IT is much more than pure technical skills - and we are quicly moving to a model where IT departments work with the business and not for them !

I agree.

Perhaps it is not their english as such but their (in our case) "Australian" English. This cultural fit issue applies to more than just language, and also applies equally to Australians O/S.

for example...the SE Asian concept of losing face..It can be a minefield for the colourfully expresive australian. I also understand that in china there are a multiple of different "degrees" of sorry. It can make things worse to use the wrong one.

Mind you if we went to India it would I believe be expected that we make an effort to understand Indian English if in fact not say Hindi...

"Cultural issues" aside they SUCK at their work.

Yes all Indians are bad and all Australians are good. All Australian university are 'A' grade all Australians are top notch programmers......

Of course Bill said what he did. He's looking at billions of dollars of profit from one country. Suck up!

I worked with programers from India. Generally about two out of every ten could make it in the states. The rest basically need to be hand held every step of the way. Good luck Bill.

Thanks to all the greedy American businessman they'll help move all their IT know how to India. So Bill when people like you cause the western world to bleed dry of IT skills the Indians won't need you no more. Why slave for you when they can do it for themselves? No more Bill, no more Microsoft and the void filled quickly by a rising Indian company.

d wrote:

"sure the best programmers from Microsoft's Redwood office come from India"

Redwood office? Where's that and what do they do in Redwood?

If you mean the place where Microsoft does it's software development then try again.

"...This top 4% is a very small number, something in the order of 1000's."

The top 4% of Indian IT graduates is a lot of people. It's more than 100% of Australian IT graduates.

Blargh

The point I am making is that Bill Gates now has a history of being a bit of a shonkster.

The top 4% of Indian IT graduates is a lot of people. It's more than 100% of Australian IT graduates.

Top 4% of Indian graduates from reputable Indian universities, this narrows the margins down a bit. This is fair enough, these top 4% of these universities are good, but there are a lot of other Indians who think they are going to gain riches, and Bill Gates is playing on this one.

What seriously worries Microsoft possible Indian Competition - if an Indian company decided to write their own operating system, well, that market is closed for Microsoft. Similiar for China and Japan.

The reality is Bill Gates is a spruiker, he is a confidence artist. India do have the capacity to compete against Microsoft, but they miss forsight, that's what Bill whats to stuff about with them.

I've worked in India for 2 years as part of a company that has established a huge development centre.

The quality of coders is generally low, but with the price difference between India and the western world, they can afford to go through the 3 to 5 iterations required to turn out 'working code'.

It all comes down to horses for courses.

If you need good working code first time, go local, if you can afford the time and re-work, India is a good, cheap alternative.

Hi friends,

I am an Indian and not against any country/culture as I have a taste of both the western and south asian cultures.

The fact is, Indian programmers strongly suck. The reason being, we can't code. There are a number of IT majors with millions employed as Software Engineers, but till today, I haven't seen even one company coming out with a compiler, so forget about quality software and an OS. These guys can't write a virus, so where the heck would they write quality code. These so called Software Engineers, just carry the name tag of being a Software Engineer, but the fact is these guys have no passion, zeal to learn and enjoy coding, design etc.. The cut, copy and paste the same crap code in different projects. These guys are here for earning money and not for writing great code. I had been to interviews in some of the major companies here and I see these so called programmers wasting time walking around the campus, chatting, rather than trying to refine their damn code.

Coming to Bill Gates and MSFT, both suck. I am sick of hearing the term "cheap labour". Labour is nothing but hard work and hard work cannot be cheap, though you are paid less. When you guys are aware that Indian programmers suck, why don't you tell your superiors/companies to shelve the plans of bringing their ass to India.

This comment was removed as it contained offensive content.

Indian programmers have routinely screwed up our projects. They get arrogant and don't really understand what the requirement is, just what they think it is. You can't understand half of what they say. They commend each other for doing crappy work. And they smell.

Indian programmers are horrible. They don't follow directions and can't code worth anything. A complete waste of time and money. Management just looks at them like cheap outs.

Many have what they call "Masters Degrees". That's a farse. All they're looking to do is circumvent the H1B's. Most are clueless.

Indian "outsourcing" companies are a farse too. Many are just a bunch of guys sitting around card tables with cheap pc's in some apartment and calling themselves a corporation.

I'm sure Micrsoft has soom good Indian programmers. Just like there's good Indian Doctors and such. But that has to do more with averages than anything. The more people you have the more probability that some will be top notch. Most just don't get it, ride scooters and can't handle simple things like bathing, while convincing themselves that they're becoming a superpower. LOL.

Well.. the *best* for his wallet? :)

The Vista is the result of such best programmers.

India rulzs

This comment was removed as it contained offensive content.

This comment was removed as it contained offensive content.

I agree to Bill Gates,

i've worked with many indian programmers with excellent programming skills...

And also worked with some stupid western programmers considering them as SUPERIOR to others!!!

I respect all countries and the people there!!!

There are many talented peoples around the world, not only in a single nation...!!! REMEMBER IT!!!

This has got to be a joke. Best programmers are in US and northern Europe. Quantity (and cheap labour) does NOT imply quality!

What about Sri Lankan programmers who work in Australia? Have u worked with them? Are they good? Or do they suck as Indian programmers? (I'm a Sri Lankan).

I have extencive experience of work with indian programmers. Sometimes I wonder if they have brain all together. Most of their programming done by "cut-n-paste". Most of the time their code is buggy as hell and needs rewriting. But they are best at key words. "Extreme programming", "agile programming", "best practices". They also favour java, oracle and xml. Everytime now I hear java I associate it with indian code. Famous IE written by indian team. We all know what crappy piece of soft it is. I haven't heard alot about indian Linux developers.

Actually I am glad they are doing windows development. Hopefully it will bury M$

is that why microsoft product version updates keep boming like in zune, xbox, and vista? i just say. hahahahhaha!

:-D ха-ха-ха

я плачу! индусы в microsoft!

:-D

ха-ха-ха! я так и знал :-D

// indian code examples..

// that's why we need to upgrade our PCs..

bool value;

…

if (value.ToString().Length == 4) //True - instead of 'if value ...'

{

...

}

else if (value.ToString().Length == 5) //False

{

...

}

else

{

//Profit here 'cause their work paid by lines of code...

throw new ArgumentException();

return !true && !false;

}