There are some very significant layoffs coming up after June 30.

For someone who has left the industry to get in the pants of young nurses, why do you bother commenting?

Yes. I agree.

The one that should care is Macca.

Macca needs to keep his job and get a good raise so I can get an increase on my unemployment benefits.

gloomy, what is the reasoning behind your opinion?

Had a coffee with an old friend still in the IT recruiting game - he said a lot of company's have got "undisclosed hiring freezes" in force and that, further, layoffs are looming after the new year.

I don't care at all :-) I just like slumming it occasionally with you happy go lucky IT lose...err....folks.

{

Gloomy =! doctor;

Gloomy = bitter = looser;

}

This comment was removed as it contained offensive content.

..it's true for some of us. I am busier than ever cleaning up after half crappy "IT professionals" and their sloppy work. They should have saved the money and paied my the higher rate in the first place, rather than first giving the job to some "Gloomy shoes" type of developer and then pay double extra to get me to undo the crappy shit the other fellow put together...

What you pay is what you get. I'd never pay a dime to get examined by "Dr" Gloomy, tho...I think I'd rather have rectal surgery performed by a racoon...

I'm snapping on the rubber gloves now :-)

Bloody fabulous Mr B.

Jolly good show mate.

Bend over now .... :-)

I am also hearing of hiring difficulties at a couple of organisations. Contracts not being renewed and teams being moved to other divisions who care more about head count/cost than the team's purpose/effectiveness.

One organisation thinks that the contracting market is not doing so well and asks for a rate decrease or offer *junior* perm roles. I think they'll learn after the third contractor leaves for greener pastures.

As for me, I am going for a permie role - not because the role is a permie/secure(?) (ie 1 month rolling contract :-) ) but because the role is appealing. Oh and the pay is a lot better than I have hoped for...

Timing and luck is on my side for now ...

Oh Gloomyshoe. Even monthly womans of less complain. Quite complains already!

Gloomyshoe happy days only when ALL ITs of unemploy.

Way to go Laz. There still are some opportunities.

You just have to be in the right place, with the right people and the right skills set.

Very funny, GL. Good stuff

Gloomy,

With your attitude and sense of self importance, I'd hate to see how you'll treat your patients.

With your outlook, I would not be at all surprised if you get sued for malpractice within a year of obtaining your medical lic.

What was it that you did when you were in "IT" again?

As for the hiring freezes; time to tap your networks. They don't last forever. Otherwise, take some holidays.

Start a business on the side, just use your time productively what ever you do.

Don't sit there feeling sorry for yourself, it achieves nothing.

I'm about to become a doctor and you're an IT loser. Ummmm, world of difference.

Perhaps Great Leopard and all the other losers can buy you a curry Rainer? Or maybe UnemployedITer can keep you company in the dole queue?

In any event you're a Loser Rainer.

Gloomyshoes, your about to become a Dr, and you actually have the time to spend not only contributing to a forum about an industry your no longer in, but enough time to be one of the most vocal contributers???

I know a DR, (second year ressy) and she had so much study to do that there was no chance she would have spent time arguing on a forum, let alone one on an industry she is not apart of.

This leads me to one of two conclusions

A. Your not really studying to become a Dr, your simply here bull sh*tting

or

B. You are studying to become a Dr, you are doing enough to scrap by, however due to your lack of attention to your studies you are likely to kill someone become you mis-diagnose them

Which is it???

Assumptions are dangerous ... my GAMSAT score and marks throughout the course were huge...I don't have to work as hard as many of the others :-)

Yes, gloomy I understand you.

You see, I used to work on IT and then I looked for a more lucrative career.

Now I am an astronaut with NASA.

As a matter of fact I am making this comment thousands of miles from the earth.

You've gotta lay off that stuff you know....but then again....it I were still in IT I'd probably be on it as well :-)

Hey Helen,

Be nice to GloomyShoes. Ok.

Not need to get personal.

Gloomy,

I see your logic.

I guess I am a loser.

I'm the one telling everyone how smart and important I am, yet somehow I find myself trolling around an internet forum all day and night.

A forum aimed at members of a profession I left.

A profession I left YEARS ago and have no intention of rejoining... Ever.

Yes Gloomy, I'm the loser.

You never answered my question oh happy one. What did you do in IT?

"I don't have to work as hard as many of the others :-)"

From what I understand of medicine, (ok this is from an outsider looking in) you must be the worlds biggest genius, to simply be able to sail through medicine without having to put in the same level of effort.

There is just one last thing I want to say - "Hi Everybody" - "Hi Dr Nick"

Ranier Wolfcastle:

For someone who has left the industry to get in the pants of young nurses, why do you bother commenting?

Surely that doesn't negate his rights to comment?

As for myself, I'm also attempting to enter another (far more) lucrative and CLOSED industry. But I do make it a point to browse ICT forums precisely because I've been in ICT for a long time and for sentimental reasons, I'm pretty pissed with worsening trends over the past few years in ICT employment.

Helen, I'm sorry to say that your attempts at sarcasm/humour/wit comes across as quite asinine. In the elite health professional programs, you either know your sh-t or you don't. There's absolutely nothing awfully complex abt understanding 99% of the syllabus. The load, however, is immense (20-30X) compared to anything else - thus, necessitating photographic memory. If you don't have such memory prowess, then, yes, you might need to speed many hours studying. Nowhere in the forum have I seen any evidence disproving or proving that Gloomy has photographic memory. Or do you know him/her personally?

Perhaps you had bad experiences with Year 10/11 science?

"From what I understand of medicine, (ok this is from an outsider looking in) you must be the worlds biggest genius

anon, 06/06/2008 10:06:10 PM), medicine is abt photographic memory, catching hints during lectures/practicals/tutorials & serious exam-taking techniques. Rote-learning is possible but burnout will occur very quickly without the above factors.

That's why medical education is big on PBL now. Problem-based learning compartmentalises a complex, multifactorial clinical problem into manageable bits.

Ranier, you do write sensibly at times. But..

"Start a business on the side, just use your time productively what ever you do.

Don't sit there feeling sorry for yourself, it achieves nothing."

Griping is a rational way for the individual to acknowledge there is a problem and isn't a waste of time when an attempt to RECTIFY the problem follows - switching jobs, fields, retraining, lobbying, etc.

By consistently pretending and expecting that things will be better when there is little evidence for it to happen, is a form of psychopathy. It's good to be optimistic, but up to a certain point. Exactly why should the ICT industry improve appreciably in Australia to make ICT a worthwhile occupation again? What's the impetus?

Gloomshoe qualified doctor very unbelieves. Simply no time always forum complaints. Sherlock Holme and super sluths not need solves case mates!

Great Leopard

Again, Starving, you failed to see the point. Of course, Everyone has the right to voice their opinion.

GloomyShoes just called you a looser a couple of posts before. Without doubt he shows contempt to you and a lot of people in this forum.

As far as I recall, Paul still also in IT, so he is also a looser. Anon is making a point. if I wasn't in IT, I wouldn't care less about IT.

The impression this guy gives, to most of us, is that he is some one who was not successful in IT and is very resentful and bitter. Perhaps an Ex-com graduate?

The only thing it can bind you to him is "Misery loves company".

As far as I can see, Starving *actually* gets it. The rest of you are nothing but IT loser slaves.

Gloomyshoe very quiet night surf net on nut ward in job for new doctor.

Real man in IT. Small boys not welcome. Pull head in gloomyshoe. Comments show u bitter loser earn bad karma.

Great Leopard

SilentMajority, 06/07/2008 01:05:52 AM, I'm afraid all I see from your lot are fragile egos and low self-esteem. If you were really successful in ICT & believe that Gloomy is a doc-wannabe loser, then why does his "ICT loser" remarks offend you so? As you yourself said, Paul himself is in ICT, but notice how he doesn't get all flustered over Gloomy's "ICT loser" generalisations? Why do you think that is? Just because someone calls you a "loser", doesn't make you one unless you know deep down inside, you could have been something better.

I also find it ludicrous that "successful" ICT folks would expend energy for skepticism over Gloomy's medical education claims (IN an anonymous forum at that). Isn't it more sensible to channel such critical analysis efforts on the many clearly incredulous (just ask Paul), intellectually insulting straw polls that these ICT recruiters are so fond of fabricating, in order to hide the truly pathetic state of Australian ICT employment from the laity? Food for thought, indeed.

Yes, Starving you are a successful man. That is why you are 'starving' as someone pointed out a while ago.

I think Starving = Gloomyshoes.

Even GL see what is wrong with Gloomyshoes posts but Starving doesn't , he just doesn't get it or doesn't want to get it.

Gloomyshoes, you are the man. Whatever gets you going through the day. And what do you do, Staving, in IT, I mean?

IT is not a flourishing Industry. No one is denying that. But unlike some people that may be starving there are some people who are doing pretty well, thank you very much.

I remember that you totally lost it once when someone pointed out that you were 'starving' while he was doing well. Remember?

Anyhow, even Gloomy's Momma will see what is wrong with Gloomy but not the 'forever more Starving'. That lead us to think that Gloomy=Starving.

Ok, guys we are fools. Because we are arguing with a fool here. He just doesn't get it. Better not to argue with him.

See you later gents, and you too loosers (Starving and Gloomy)

As for the recruiters , I think we all know what they are. We all agree on how lousy many of them can be. A bit like car salesman or bit worse but If you don't have a good network, well you may need to use them.

Our point is beside recruiters and

That is why you are 'starving' as someone pointed out a while ago.

"Socrates", why couldn't it be starving for a "challenge" or "job security"? I don't know abt you but if I were impoverished enough to be starving for food, engaging in such interesting polemics with ICT recruiters here would be the last thing on my to-do list. Tongue-in-cheek mean anything?

I think Starving = Gloomyshoes.

I'm not Gloomy but if it makes you feel better abt yourself to believe so, then go for it. I have no need for gimmick accounts because I sell nothing and I don't exact a commission by misleading more hapless sods into ICT for peanuts.

Thus, where gimmick accounts are concerned, only our uniquely conniving ICT recruiters have a need for them because they make a great living spruiking the ICT employment scam and need "numbers" to fabricate evidence and/or support.

It's elementary, really.

IT is not a flourishing Industry. No one is denying that.

Well according to the recruiters, ICT workers are invariably rolling in cash now and that more people should be working in ICT. Maybe you'd like to set them straight? I think the calling these ICT recruiters' deception was how the debate started with your kind taking their side.

But unlike some people that may be starving there are some people who are doing pretty well, thank you very much.

I don't think the crux of the debate was whether you or some other exceptions are "doing pretty well" in ICT.

Records have shown that ICT enrolments have been at an all time low and setting a record low every year and the admission standards have been dropping. In your mind, is this an indication of a career with a bright future? If ICT workers were really working in a boom industry, don't you think they'd also encourage their kids to get into ICT? Instead, it seems that ICT workers themselves have been discouraging their kids from an ICT occupation. Why do you think that is?

Of course, it's nothing short of an immense exodus and obviously ICT recruiters who parasitise on desperate ICT workers are worrying abt the supply side of gullible victims.

Ahh.. but "Socrates", you & your kind+alter egos make a "great living" working in ICT, that's all that matters.

Actually, i agreed with some of your points.

Yes, i am doing pretty well and many of my colleagues are doing well.

I think that IT is not "da choice" . However, I have seen that many of my colleagues are doing ok. No one is swimming in cash but earning decent wages or rates.

I must say that these are the middle 20's and early 30's generation. I don't know what happened to all the dot com generation. I only know two IT professionals from the dot com generation and they managed to

re-skill themselves and now hold good jobs in IT.

I guess that IT is not a gold mine but it is not either as bad as some people may think.

The shortages claim are coming from other industries now. We will see the number of migrants to go up on the coming years. We are living in

'interesting times'. (for thos e who don't know this is an old Chinese curse: You may live in interesting times)

Starving,

I agree with you. People can comment all they like.

I just find it peculiar that Gloomy almost never has anything positive to say, yet somehow thinks that the streets are going to be paved with gold for him as a medico.

I don't think he knows what he is in for. But... That's my opinion isn't it. Notice I managed to articulate it without calling him a loser.

In my experience, people with such a negative outlook end up nowhere in life. No one likes a sour puss I guess.

As far as my comments about starting a business; I guess that is my way of gaining some control over life and gaining some financial security.

All grievances on this forum seem to stem from the fact that someone else controls our destiny as employees.

The easiest way to address that is to gain some control. And you will never do this as an employee. Hence my "start a business" comments.

In terms of starting a business, we are better placed than almost all people to start something without losing our shirts doing it. Use your development skills and the internet to your advantage.

P.S. How did everyone like my I'm a Loser post? Not too harsh I hope.

Ranier Wolfcastle, good luck with the business, however I can tell you from experience that business does not equal financial security, at least not for the first few years.

Until I started a business, the idea of having more than a few thousand in my bank account was virtually unheard of, now it happens very frequently.

However unlike been an employee or contractor, you never truely know when you next going to be paid, you don't know where the next job will come from, and you can do a ton of work for a client who ends up not paying them (or at least pays them very late, only because you've started legal action).

So, currently I have a little over $4,000, with another $8,000 in the pipeline, however that has to keep me going until my clients next pay my invoices, which could be in a month, it could be in 3. It's certainly not a financially secure position to be in by any means, the bonus is though, It's my business, I decide when I want to work (although 12 hours a day, 7 days a week seems to be the norm). I decide where my time goes, and the exact direction I want to take the business in.

"Socrates",

No one is swimming in cash but earning decent wages or rates.

Therein lies the problem - ICT recruiters have been insisting everyone in ICT is making a mint (see the latest post by Paul) and that there's nothing wrong with ICT employment across the board. Such claims, we all know, are outright lies. Paul himself had been casting serious aspersions on these fraudulent articles, if you'd been reading his commentaries.

While I'd been in ICT for over 13 years, I'm far from being jaded and to be honest, I really loved my job as coder/tester for turnkey systems. Trying to remain in ICT, I too "moved" up or rather laterally and I "retrained" as a comp.eng lecturer. I left when I realised that the dropping student numbers would make an ICT academic career untenable.. and I was right about this nation-wide development.

As I see it, ICT is a sinking ship, you can only move up that much to keep out of the freezing water but you're delaying inevitable by remaining in it.

Suffice to say, I'd prefer honesty when it comes to recommendation of ICT as a "long-term" career. Unfortunately, that is exceptionally hard to find against the backdrop of conniving, self-serving ICT recruiters & their wildly fictitious reports on "great" career prospects. It doesn't help when alot of deceived stakeholders then utilise those "reports" as gospel truth whenever someone disputes their overly optimistic views of really moribund industry here in Australia.

Ranier, I just wanted to say that it's inaccurate to automatically dismiss ICT negativity as the mere rantings of people who must have flawed personalities and that these "flaws" are 100% responsible for their sufferings. These days, more often than not, adverse ICT employment changes occur in spite of workers' talents or personalities.

This is due to economies of scale and the commodisation of 3rd world labour. Thus, the result is one now has to jump through endless hoops and become full-time hucksters just to remain employable. If you don't, facing cheap labour competition from all sides, many others will even though, previously, these tactics weren't necessary. Not everybody is cut out for that and ICT employment has clearly evolved into something many didn't expect when they first started off - I certainly didn't. These are also the factors causing the radical shift towards treating local ICT workers as liabilities to be eliminated ASAP rather than assets to be invested in.

What I'm really trying to convey about the Oz ICT predicament is that one should disavow oneself of the notion that as long as one stays "positive" and "works hard" then everything will be just fine. It doesn't work that way under the given circumstances.

Nice morning in Sydney. Dr Gloomyshoes at his waterfront property. He siting in his favorite rocking chair. His feet rest on beautifully done leopard skin. Behind his chair a good looking , exotic young woman in Nurse uniform massaging his neck and shoulders. Dr Gloomyshoes sipping delicious coffee and reading morning papers. When he read papers headers: “Mass layoffs continuing ” , “Suicides among fired tech workers shooting trough the roof”, “Packs of feral Ex IT workers running at countryside ” he becoming a very, very sad. . “I told them” he whispering , “but they never, never listened….”

The truth is more likely to be that they did listen but either didn't the academic ability and/or the cash to roll out of IT into something isn't so low rent.

Anyway, I had a chuckle..thanks..

Can we please continue this medical conversation elsewhere? For example, http://www.emedical.com.au/default.asp?PageId=8

The same ol' "conversations" seem to spill over to the next "topic" time and time again.

Actually, "topic" is probably inappropriate. It's more of a starting point and then the posts invariably go to the same, tired, boring topics over and over again.

meh.

bstd:His feet rest on beautifully done leopard skin.

I guess sometime down the road, "Great Leopard" was laid off too? lol

Bstd fiction work author of highly amusal. Fact Gloomyshoe never skill and quick for catch leopards skins.

Leopard fast and physical man. When small baby even lift twelve mangos on stick.

Great Leopard

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