You also need to improve your skills in a downturn business climate because employers are going to layoff the less skilled workers.

The converse is also tru ... that the better skilled workers are in a better standing for getting hired.

All ok advice, but don't be a door mat. You may want to be a little more flexible on the rate, but if you go in with the attitude of "I am your servant do to me what you will" companies will do just that, and will still turf you out because they feel like it.

Its about time this site comes to a reality in the current situation.

Technicals market '09 very unhealth. Times left only maybe for enterprise developer rolls. Javascript only boys with worrys not compete with big gun. Wall street troubles only just beginnings more pains soon begins. US banks very risks collapse.

Gonu Ganguly

I've got unlimited job opportunities courtesy of my MBBS unlike you IT losers.

Thanks for that Gem of Wisdom Gloomyshoes! You rock!

There is no mention of agencies

reducing their margin. In any case, many in the Employment Services industry are also going to hit the wall.

None of the items in the article applies if the project you are working on gets shelved for an indefinate period or gets offshored - like Pacific Brands

Do not take any notice of the compulsive obsession with resumes. They only suggest that to stall you, because they actually have nothing for you in reality. Because the IT industry and its recruiters are fraught with a psychological problem (primacy / recency) they do not understand fully what they are reading anyway.

Great wall street bear not stop smell roses or Gloomyshoe MBBS claims. Great hunger remain. Slaughter and meals so far only light entray. General Motor, US Citybanks and Macquarie risks next tasty meals. BHP and RIO Tito soon very bad buttocks bites. ASX slam 1900 by June before bear return hiberates. Superannuate bounds for collapse property and cashs only safe. Face 20 year recovery very slows.

Great Leopard

Midnight Master

Dave Lovelace laughs when you ask about the purported shortage of qualified IT workers. He has 35 years of senior-level IT experience under his belt, ranging from systems programming to systems engineering to business development. He's published a number of well-regarded books on storage technology, forged strategic alliances between multinational vendors, and negotiated multimillion-dollar contracts.

And, apparently, nobody needs his services.

Over the past 24 months, Lovelace has applied for hundreds of jobs in Silicon Valley, where he's based. It's rare he gets even a courtesy e-mail or call in return.

"I'm not just sending out resumés to every job posting, but only the ones I'm qualified for," said Lovelace, who just finished a book on storage migration for the SAP environment. "There's clearly no shortage of technology workers. If that were the case, I'd been getting dozens of calls every week, and salaries would be going through the roof. And that's just not happening."

Are we facing an IT shortage of crisis proportions, or systematically destroying a skilled and capable homegrown workforce?

In the engineering globalization debate, the battle lines are drawn. Companies like Microsoft (MSFT), Intel (INTC), and Oracle (ORCL) say there are severe shortages of skilled workers and they need more visas to bring in foreign workers to stay competitive. Unemployed engineers say this push for more visas is a plot to suppress wages. My own research at Duke University has shown that there is no general shortage of engineers in the U.S.

The globalization debate shouldn't focus on the issue of visas. Instead, it should examine an issue that tech executives don't like to discuss: age. Tech companies prefer to hire young engineers. Engineering has become an "up or out" profession—you either move up the ladder or you face unemployment. In other words, even though globalization has compounded the difficulties for aging engineers, it's not the culprit.

High-Tech Hiring: Youth Matters

Hawkwind wrote:

".....Do not take any notice of the compulsive obsession with resumes.........Because the IT industry and its recruiters are fraught with a psychological problem (primacy / recency) they do not understand fully what they are reading anyway...."

The final statement in this comment is exactly why your resume needs to be simple, focussed and easy to read and understand.

If a recruiter cannot work out what your skill set is and what you actually do they are not likely to put your forward for the one of the few jobs they actually have listed.

Also - is it possible that due to his 35 years of "senior-level IT experience...from systems programming to systems engineering to business development", that Dave’s resume is quite generic, broad and not targeted enough?

Just a thought.

The final statement in this comment is exactly why your resume needs to be simple, focussed and easy to read and understand.

This is not the cure for this type of psychological condition.

If a recruiter cannot work out what your skill set is and what you actually do they are not likely to put your forward for the one of the few jobs they actually have listed.

Why make allowances for incompetance and lack of attention to details, especially when someones livelihood is at stake?

Also - is it possible that due to his 35 years of "senior-level IT experience...from systems programming to systems engineering to business development", that Dave’s resume is quite generic, broad and not targeted enough?

I found myself in exactly the same position as Dave. It is the ultimate insult that the experiences and muliple skills accumulated over three decades of working our arses off are fobbed off as being "GENERIC" by people who have not acheived even one decade of experience yet.

Similarly with your term "BROAD". Naturally those of us who have achieved over a long period of time in the industry have a broad experience. Logically I would have thought this to be a plus! It used to be once-upon-a-time. Why has this changed?

Like Dave, many of the positions I have held involve simultaneous multiple skill sets. In my case; software development, analysis, network engineering, database modeling, contingency planning and much more.

Just like Dave, my resume was "TARGETED"!

I have no doubt that just like me, Dave has chosen another occupation in an industry that values life experience.

THE AGING WORKFORCE CRISIS IS ON THE WAY!

Hawkwind comment show man of much self amusal.

Very static cereer,

Looks like Dave is very static in his career, after 35 years in the IT industry he has not promoted him self to senior level, like project manager etc.

Dave has not moved with the industry, either not skilled to todays technology or too old, I would stick to writing books.

Anyone 35 years in the industry is too old, deny this fact but the IT industry is so ageist and racist.

Just look at the top Banks/Telcos in this stinking country they don't want to hire Australians anymore, they treat IT like its just a cheap skill like cleaning floors shifting boxes, just because it comes from thin air it is not a valuable skill.

ALX

Here is a typical Scenario with a recruiter:

Phone rings.

I answer it with "good morning SID speaking"

hi my name is "bloodsucker" from scumbank IT recruiting.

I was wondering if this is a good time to speak for a few minutes about up and coming positions..

Fantastic can you give a brief description of the roles.

So the conversation goes on about the roles etc, send job details to my email account, I send the same resume for the 100th time to scumbank.

also they try to weed out some important info from you like hows the job market going for you.

"bingo that's what there after.", after this one they will gently discard you in a "thanks for your time and get back to you etc" and hang up

But they never respond or get back to me..

Sounds familiar.....

This was the same scenario back in the dot com crash, looks like they haven't changed there spots.

SD

Looks like Dave is very static in his career, after 35 years in the IT industry he has not promoted him self to senior level, like project manager etc.

...forged strategic alliances between multinational vendors, and negotiated multimillion-dollar contracts.

What do you think that means?

You obviously did not read the article past the first sentence, and your assumption that the career path of a technical person to management is typical and totally incorrect.

In my experience, and no doubt as well as Dave's, the profile of typical IT Management type consists of people who have not been able to make it technically in the industry. They have really poor people handling skills and no business/project management qualifications or experience.

They definately can't read.

Dave has not moved with the industry, either not skilled to todays technology or too old, I would stick to writing books.

In the last 15 years, at least, the industry has not moved, and it certainly has not produced much in the way of anything innovative and completely unproductive.

The ICT Trade Deficit in this country alone is in excess of $21 billion and increasing each year.

Just look at the top Banks/Telcos in this stinking country they don't want to hire Australians anymore, they treat IT like its just a cheap skill like cleaning floors shifting boxes, just because it comes from thin air it is not a valuable skill.

It is actually more like cleaning toilets - and today's technology has no value to them. I suppose you think that their large scale mainframes, which is their mainstream IT, is going to be replaced by some dodgy J2EE or VB application.

It ain't going to happen.

Why have you confined your comments to just Dave's story? What about Sharon Adler's story? What about all the other professionals mentioned in this article? Are there too many for you?

The scumbags WILL soon hit the wall.

Hawkwind correct. Recruiter soon hit walls tasty happy meal for great wall street bear.

Hey GL, You are supposed to say that He is 'highly' correct not just correct.

That information week article was enlightening. I was curious about conditions to the 457 visa here and I can't see anything preventing companies in Australia from importing workers at will, all they have to do is provide minimum salary of $43,000. I had assumed there was some kind of requirement to prefer Australians if possible, but it looks like I was wrong.

This is completely insane, we're even less protected here than the Americans hopelessly abused system. Where's the incentive to hire Australians? What hope do you have if you're a young person in Australia trying to break into the field? You're screwed before you begin. No wonder nobody goes into IT anymore.

I have met many 457 visa holders and I've also met many people complaining they can't get into the field. My experience of the complainers is a lot of the time they're not aware of how unskilled they really are, but then having seen the rubbish code produced by the visa holders I couldn't honestly say they're worse. Plenty of them have literally taken years to write code that could be written better in a few weeks, I'm not kidding.

The minimum salary for visas needs to be bumped to $70,000. This will get rid of the garbage coders, improve opportunities for young people, improve our own job security and let the GOOD people here on visa, that are worth the money, earn a decent salary. Although companies here are too ignorant to realize it, they will also save money by not wasting it on badly designed systems. Naturally, as this would be in the interests of everyone concerned except for the bad programmers, it would never happen.

Yes I got too lately, emails: “please sent me udated resume with latest jobs descriptions” In lead searches vampires becoming desperate. But there is not many jobs around. The ship is going down.

The ship went down already in 1999

DON'T give them any info on your current postition, if you have one!!!!!!

DON'T get another job!!!!!!

Then, you can spend the whole day on here with us - complaining and apportioning blame.

The rules for survival on Brain Box

It occurs to me that we from time to time get positive posts on here. So to remove all doubt I have compiled the following list of rules for survival and agreement on Brain Box

1. The industry collapsed in 1999, it's your fault I have been in a slump since then.

2. Sitting around mooching from the public purse is a completely acceptable if not expected

3. If you have a degree and it's not in medicine or taxi driving you don't know nothing

4. If you are currently employed then it's obvious you don't know how the IT industry works. You only gain that knowledge once your un-employed

5. People skills are an absolute no no. Remember that in any social situations you must feel awkward, never help anyone.

6. Recruiters are scum - accept it.

7. If your not earning $100000 per hour your both undercharging, and dragging everyone else's rate down, forget the fact that even entry level jobs will usually pay an average income at a minimum when compared to just about every other job out there.

and finally

8. If you don't give me the respect I deserve for being in the industry when you where still in nappies, even though I couldn't get a job replacing light bulbs in server rooms anymore, watch out.

Anon - add #9. If born before '82 then perhaps not energy and passions for top technical. Best coders all begins after '99. Y2K mainframes just pain memory for powerhouse museam.

By the way, I think Brainbox's job listings have really gone downhill.

Hi there stranger.

Everything is going extremely well in SL.

You should pay me a visit some time.

Y2K mainframes just pain memory for powerhouse museam.

What a load of crap!!!!!

We scanned millions of lines of mainframe code as well as PC application code in the Y2K projects I was involved in - we found NOTHING. It was a big paranoic SCAM mainly discussed on politics and the media. A complete waste of money and resources.

IBM still sell many mainframe machines.

It just that you would not know anything about that, because they don't want amateurs crawling over stable multi-million dollar systems in Government and large corporates.

Have you ever seen The Simpsons Y2K skit. It's not too far off the mark.

Misleading job and business opportunity advertisements cause job seekers a great deal of hardship and difficulty. Even worse, some scams are dressed up as job opportunities and can actually cost job seekers money. Young people and people whose native language is not English are especially at risk. Misleading job and business opportunity advertisements carry heavy penalties under the Trade Practices Act 1974 (the Act), ranging up to $1.1 million for the most serious breaches. The Australian Competition and Consumer Commission (the ACCC) does not hesitate to take action when businesses are taking advantage of job seekers, particularly when those affected are vulnerable or disadvantaged.

Misleading job and business opportunity advertisements

It is bad enough just having a economic disaster based on zero or negative productivity, combined with the subsequent failure of the stock market and the inability for citizens to pay the mortage on the family home due to the decay of income during the last decade.

Seeing that the Australian Government is about to introduce the Carbon Trading Scheme Bill in the Senate to curb the onslaught of Global Warming and Climate Change, there will be another phase that will accelerate and deepen the Great Recession.

There is really no choice. Soon there will have to be radical changes to economics, and some people won't like the changes. Bad Luck!

Change to a "Green Industry"!!!

Hawkwind mistake only mainframe skill not survive fail learns web skills for future. Mainframe five weeks one screen web dev one day more functionals. Tech industry competition like top cricket sportsmans. Take eye from ball lose wicket.

Hawkwind mistake only mainframe skill not survive fail learns web skills for future.

Once again your assumption is full of crap. Worse then recruiter. I did learn web skills, Duckie.

Already had server-side skills and plenty of REAL RDBMS skills - left the mainframe environment in 1987, although not totally because of EDI experience requiring both.

Learnt ColdFusion, J2EE and PHP all a huge waste of time. The web in this country is a huge pathetic failure; Australian business is clueless. Government is also clueless and the broadband rollout was pathetic.

Big failure of Telstra only concentrating on Foxtel and does not have ownership of the trans-pacific cable. Owned by Telecom New Zealand and Singtel Optus.

Ask any freelance journalist who has to now survive newspaper failure by contributing to websites in the USA because there is no outlet here.

Web weavers are not IT Professionals - only amatuers with no IT background like end-user.

The pimply-faced X-Gen/Y-Gen dreamlike notion that The World Wide Web can replace mainframe power is completely hillarious.

WinTel can't even run Office Automation properly yet and really bad security and only immature technology hype.

The rapid growth of Virtual 3D Worlds (e.g. Second Life) and the Metaverse will soon make the web developer skills redundant. I have been a Second Life member since June 2007 already.

Metaverse Roadmap: Pathways to the 3D Web

Hi Hawkwind, hope you are having fun in SL. I don't do it anymore as I'm busy inventing alternacrafts for something to do....and I have a new job in agriculture.

Yep, I reckon the sh*t in our economy is due to hit the wall, except govs seem to be trying to fight off the natural progression of things.

About to open a store in SL to sell my creations and have a partnership with Xcite!.

SL shows no sign whatsoever of hitting the wall - extremely rapid growth. Might very well be the "New Economy".

ITCRA has met with Senator Chris Evans, Minister for Immigration and Citizenship, to provide advice in respect to proposed changes to the 2008-09 Skilled Migration Program. The meeting, which was attended by ITCRA Executive Director Norman Lacy, took place in Melbourne on 20 January.

The Minister outlined the Government’s intention to implement a number of measures designed to ensure that the 2008-09 Skilled Migration Program is driven by the needs of industry and targeted skills in critical need across a number of sectors.

ITCRA BACKS NEW MIGRATION PROGRAM

On 14 April 2008 the Minister for Immigration and Citizenship, Senator Chris Evans, announced the establishment of an independent integrity review process to be conducted by industrial relations expert Ms Barbara Deegan, following concerns raised about the Subclass 457 visa program. The final report was completed in October 2008.

Subclass 457 Integrity Review

Hello Hawkwind

Thank you for posting relevant and informative articles

Looking at the posts here I'm not surprised that Paul cannot be bothered with this site and that it's going to the wall.

As an IT Contractor interested in others view and opinions I used to read the posts here with interest.

But now it has become a breading ground for idiots like the Hawk man who turn all discussion into the same old boring wankfest of doom gloom and bull!

Get over it and move on before what this site dies for ever. Go spread you bitter doom and gloom somewhere else!

To no surprise..

You are afraid of the truth.

you onker

The fact that despite what is said here, there are still jobs in IT paying good money, or the fact that you guys are stuck in the late 90's and unwilling to adapt?

what? afraid of the truth? Get you head out of it macca.

I know that things are not great at the moment but like the other guy said - "there are still jobs in IT paying good money".

If you can't see that - why should I be afraid!?!

In regards to the Second Life Economy, I'm still amazed that people want to invest their money there.

No rule of law, no enforcable property rights, no finite resources (If a resource is infinite, it has no value or price)

You may as well send your money to emerging markets like Mexico or South America. At least you get a decent return for the risk; not to mention you are using your money to advance the economy of a country in need, instead of enriching a bunch of western geeks.

Rubbish!

My creations are fully copyright protected by US Law namely the

I just heard ANZ are sacking 500 people and moving their jobs to India. Is there any word on the nature of the jobs they're shifting?

DMCA: Digital Millennium Copyright Act

In addition there is the Linden Labs Terms of Service and Community Standards, which Linden Labs enforce when there is a complaint.

There is nothing like that in Australia with its pathetic copyright and IP laws. There have been several cases even against Linden Labs. All Internet Laws apply just the same as Internet based fraud in the Real World and can be heard in real world courts.

Any chance you could stop posting crap links on here that are not relevant to the initial discussion thread.

Looking back over previous threads you always manage to post a link to some useless & unrelated article or website.

Here's an idea - create your own forum where you and your mates can post all your useless crap and your conspiracy theories.

Pull your useless head in and crawl back under your rock.

You seem to come up short when it comes to contributing anything here except to abuse anyone that posts RELEVANT articles.

In psychology we have a special name for nutcases like you.

Love your work Hotwind!

You're obviously THE authority on all things IT.

If your goal is killing this site - knock yourself out mate!

-----------------------------

Now back to more inteligent responses -

@tony

I'm pretty sure that the functions being cut by ANZ and sent to India are back office administration roles.

THE AUTHOR NON-EXISTANT AND UNKNOWN

LMAO!!!!!

September 23, 2003

The challenges of the recent IT market have fostered endless discussion about the merits or problems in offshore outsourcing, a practice that has gained currency within large businesses struggling to innovate despite tight IT budgets.

At ANZ Banking Group, however, offshore development has worked well enough that it has not been a point of contention but an inspiration for Australian developers.

ANZ's entry into offshore development grew out of the group's once-expansive network of overseas operations, which at one point stretched into more then 40 countries. Consolidation in the early 1990s reduced that number to about 20, one of which was a facility in Bangalore, India, established as part of ANZ's involvement with Indian bank Grindlays.

Years ago, that facility employed less than 100 people. Today, there are more than 400 developers in Bangalore working on ANZ projects, producing about a third of ANZ's overall code.

The Indian developers are kept closely in the loop. Regular meetings - both in person and online via videoconferencing, email and instant messaging - ensure that they're delivering the code that the bank requires.

It wasn't always that way. In the centre's early days "we were trying to use Bangalore as a coding shop", recalls David Boyles, chief operating officer at ANZ. "It wasn't working all that well. A lot of people try the model where they develop an application's specifications, send it to India, and hope to get a good outcome. You can make that model work if you're incredibly good at writing specs and unbelievably disciplined. But we've found the best way to really get teamwork is to have as much mingling of the people as we can."

Going offshore: the hidden inspiration

LYAO all you like mate.

2009 - yep. I don't care if its 2050. So what! Its a continuing saga.

Obviously you weren't in the industry in 2003 and you are passing yourself off as the owner/moderator in this forum.

Its fine to have your pathetic opinion, but you have to know what the hell you are talking about.

All I can do is post the FACTS.

I have been through perhaps more then 3 recessions in my working life. Most of them were confined to only one industry or region and could trade their way out with regions that were doing well and recover easily.

This time however, with globalisation and the lack of trade protections, the recession is global and there are no regions to help to trade out of the current situation.

Last month another 600,000 or so became unemployed in United States.

Claims at Centrelink are also increasing now to record levels.

The ANZ Bank will sack 500 workers and move the jobs to India, prompting calls for the Rudd government to withdraw its deposit guarantee scheme from financiers that shift jobs offshore.

The ANZ confirmed on Friday it would sack back-office staff and move the work to Bangalore by Christmas, just as Australia's jobless rate climbs.

The Finance Sector Union says Australia's highly-profitable banks have moved more than 4,500 back-office jobs offshore during the past two years, with the latest retrenchments at ANZ a "kick in the guts".

"It is an absolute disgrace," the union's national secretary Leon Carter told reporters.

"It is unacceptable and the fact they would announce that they're sending 500 jobs overseas the day after we've got such an increase in unemployment rates is unconscionable."

A spokesman for ANZ said 500 technology and back-office jobs would be shed by the end of this year, but the bank would maintain its call centres in Australia and New Zealand.

"In 2008, the size of the operation in Bangalore grew by around 500 people and it is reasonable to expect there will be some further growth in 2009," he said.

The announcement was made as the finance union told a Senate inquiry government assistance to banks should be withdrawn if jobs were sent offshore.

ANZ to cut 500 jobs in offshore move

A lot of this sort of law hasn't been tested in court yet Hawkwind.

Indeed the most recent case regarding intellectual property rights in a virtual world (Bragg Vs Linden Research) seems to indicate that the EULA's (End User Licence Agreement) that form a lot of the rules/protections in the Virtual worlds aren't worth much in the Real world. Indeed, Linden ended up settling this case.

If you want to read more about it (and legal issues in Virtual worlds) check out this one ----->http://www.abanet.org/intelprop/magazine/LandslideSep08_Kane.pdf

Also virtuallyblind.com is a pretty good site for Legal issues in Virtual worlds.

You're hilarous!

Not that it has anything to do with it, but yes I was in the industry in 2003 and I was busy making heaps of cash contracting - still am.

What's your point?

Anyway, as this dicussion has nothing to do with the original post time to draw a line in the sand and move on.

-------------------------

The DCMA is fully enforcable in the Real World and Linden Labs are obligated to respond to requests from the real world legal authorities, courts and lawyers and the plaintif.

I can quote from at least 20 legal cases - and yes I know virtuallyblind - BUT - they can only publish cases that have public access. Not all legal cases have public access.

Yoda, I have been an active SecondLife resident since mid 2007 - I own land and extending my virtual business and I get my advice from people who have experience. I have several Linden Labs employees on my friends list - including the CFO.

There is also a high demand for scripters (LSL) which is a lucrative field.

There is a presence of many corporates and education entities including IBM, Telstra and the ABC. There are also many case studies of successful enterprises and I am a developer partner with one of them.

It’s not all roses…. How to work with the current climate

Obviously you have a comprehension problem anon. On your bike son!!!!!

Wait until the new financial year when new budgets are out - I'll bet you will be out on your stupid ass!

28 February 2009, 4:40pm

The queues are getting longer at Centrelink as demand increases for income support. The queues are getting longer at Centrelink as demand increases for income support.

As the economic skies darken, Government research is showing that more Australians are using Centrelink to gain access to income support, job placement and retraining.

Centrelink facing increased demand: report

Won't be long before its your turn anon! Its just a matter of time; then no doubt you will come here whinning.

Ageism statistics from the above article:

The deteriorating jobs outlook is hitting men the hardest, particularly those with 20 years or more workforce experience. The number of men who have been on unemployment benefits for up to a year has risen by 31.9 per cent in the past year, compared with a 23.7 per cent increase in the number of women jobseekers.

Men aged 40-59 years represent the biggest increase in the number on unemployment benefit, up by 37.7per cent. Among women, the most vulnerable years are 25-29, where there has been a 29.6 per cent lift in those on unemployment benefits.

Find a job

I feel like I have split personaility syndrome, I have been posting wihtout realising it.

I personally believe there is something very wrong with a forum when the people who actually have an interest in the forum topic need to hide behind generic names for fear of ridicule by the trolls.

Once upon a time I used to post here under my name.

I for one hope that Paul realises this site is a failure and does nothing to promote the industry which I expect he quite likes. My only hope is that shortly when I type in the www.brainbox.com.au address into my browser one of three things happen,

1 - URL is no more

2 - This site has been closed

or

3 - This site is restricted only to thoughs in the IT industry, who have actual comments or questions. Given the state of the markets if the media is to be trusted, this site should be flooded with questions asking what to do to survive a downturn, resume hints, good recruiters to speak to etc...

A large number of jobs listed on that Government run jobs site are proved to be bogus - no better than the rest of them.

In order to use the 457 Visa Scheme the "employer" needs to show proof that they advertised the position in Australia first. Especially if your occupation is on the MODL.

MIGRATION OCCUPATIONS IN DEMAND (MODL)

Plenty of them would be filled by the "employer" looking up the skills matching database at Dept of Immigration.

Skill Matching Database

That jobsearch website has had bugger all development jobs for its entire existence. Most of the ones it does have are bullshit.

What's really funny is you can find statistics on that site about what boom occupations all things IT are. That should tell you something about this industry and our government.

The industry is a failure and many people who once posted here have given up and walked away in disgust, including me.

However, because the industry is a thorn in many people's side, and the industry's obvious bad reputation of being a "People Regurgatation Machine" I will will deliver that message, until the current shonky recruitment practices are disposed of. I think that is fair under these circumstances.

The same line of conversation is very apparent on other similar sites as well, as explained in the original article. Perhaps you did NOT read the original post.

Anon - you demonstate the Primacy / Recency pychological behaviour perfectly. This is excellent material for my studies towards my degree in psychology.

What is probably not realised is that most of the IT jobs on Jobsearch are/where simply ported from the private commercial sites like Jobnet myCareer etc.

The IT Immigration Program also rakes in a load of money in fees for the Australian Computer Society to process "Skills Assessment" for the multitude of 456/457 Visas flooding the Australian market.

The ACS has to be the only organisation of professionals in the world providing this service.

Friday 13 March 2009:

Deloitte Corporate Reorganisation Group Partners David Lombe and Simon Cathro were today appointed Voluntary Administrators of Babcock & Brown Limited.

The appointment follows the voting against the restructure of Babcock & Brown Limited’s subordinated notes by New Zealand noteholders today (13 March), which in turn, has led the Directors of the company to determine that the company is likely to become insolvent.

Voluntary Administrators for Babcock & Brown

Too much hate in your life. Chill out and change jobs!

That is the expected intelligent response I would expect from those with a vested interest.

ie: a 457 slave, or a ITCRA or ACS member loser.

Hawkwind et al...

The IT industry has moved in leaps and bounds - so much so that there's no such thing as a JAVA Developer, C++ Developer, PHP Developer.... code monkeys don't exist anymore.

Developers (or those that earn more than $20 p/h) have industry experience in finance, accounting, insurance, FMCG, Energy, superannuation, banking, etc...

For those who AREN'T so cynical and looking for Developer work forward me your resume.

Roger

I would not touch you with an 80 foot barge pole.

When I was in IT I had experience in process control, insurance (general and life), finance, investment, banking, legal, government and defence spread over 30 years. Was not just coding either. There seems to be a problem with some halfwits understanding this one - perhaps they don't know what multiple skills are and the time it takes working your ass off accumulating it all. Being a professional in the industry always takes a lot more than just coding.

From 1984 my minimum rate was $50p.h. - maximum $180p.h.

There are other places you get get girls to do your temporary secretarial work.

By the way it is highly illegal to prevent qualified people from applying for a job and will be reported as such.

I'm not shrink, but Hawkwind - I think you are seriously mad!

Who cares what you were earning in 1804?

It's the 'now' that matters. If Roger doesn't want to give you a job beacuase of the crazy way you carry on here - I can't say I blame him! In fact I support him 100%.

He's offering people work - you just offer BS!

How about you get off your soapbox and join the rest of us in the real world!

"By the way it is highly illegal to prevent qualified people from applying for a job and will be reported as such."

I'm not sure that there is anything in the post that prevents you from applying!

Why don't you apply - see if you have what it takes. Put your BS where your mouth is!

FYI: I am doing the final year in a degree in Psychology. Then next year I do my post grad stuff.

I think I am more qualified then you in determining my psychological condition as well as YOURS.

Looking at the symptoms of some people in the industry, definately some here at Brainbox are in dire need of my services after I graduate and cleared for practice.

Of course many psychologists are accused of being nuts by their patients. Its a professional risk.

Can't you read or do you need an optometrist?

Roger has posted a good example of a potentially misleading job ad - it leaves out nearly all the key information required.

The ACCC in particular is interested in this type of advertising and could also detemine it as spam.

Misleading job ads is a serious offence - the penalty under the Trade Practices Act is up to $1.1 million.

Misleading job and business opportunity ads

Dude - You're a crackpot! Bitter and twisted with some strange hatred complex for anyone in recruitment, on a 457 or in the ACS! You have some serious issues!

Roger's ad is not misleading - it's light on detail - so what?

Spam? Again - you're nuts mate! the crap you post in here is more likley to be classed as span that Rogers passing comment that he may have some dev roles on offer.

Again, I put it to you - why not apply and let's see if you have what it takes.

Hell are you a stupid goose

Why in the hell should I waste my time? I have anough work to do on my degree for a REAL profession instead of dealing with unprofessional ponces like you and that Tony dude

Go to hell.

I would be really losing my marbles if I applied for that job (what is the job? - what company? - what location? - what's the salary?) or any other in the IT industry. The industry is dead and so is any back office job.

Hell even US President Obama is wondering why Silicon Valley is as dead as a dead dingoes donger and is even determined to fix it so that America is competative again because its lagging badly.

NOW in case you missed my point STUPID - I have a virtual business that I can make a living out of to put food on the table and pay the rent. In addition, I have a good income from another source, which is residual.

Seeing that all my job applications where completely ignored (thousands of them)why in the hell should I bother now. I have already done something about this hopeless predicament experienced by 1000's of others and reskilling in another field - as far away as I get get from the industry.

Comprehendo!!!!!?

God it's hard penetrating the density.

LMAO

I know that many here are feed up with putting up with unprofessional crap, especially over the last nine years.

But, fortunately there is life after IT.

The Universities and TAFE will welcome you with open arms - especially mature age students (26+) who have had life experience.

If you don't have your HSC you can do the Teriary Preparation Course at TAFE - that will get you into any Univerity as a Mature Age Entry Program.

Because of the onslaught of the recession, which will get much worse, you might as well use the years ahead to get another paying occupation or profession.

The choice of occupation or profession is completely yours.

Hello Hawkwind

Thank you for posting relevant and informative articles

Not a problem. I am glad you appreciate it.

Didn't I tell you to let go of that crack pipe?!! It's obvious that you are still puffin'. Put it down!

"We have terms for that in psychology" Ha ha ha.

You are a big joke. So you took some courses in psychology, and now you suddenly identify with the profession! Pathetic! It takes brains to become a skilled practitioner. I'm afraid you lack that - as well as empathy and the genuine ambition to help people.

You are just a dissillusionised idiot in NEED of a psychologist.

You would not even know who he was. Socrates came to an untimely end.

Go shove it you ponce.

I am obviously not in your age bracket.

I am doing a university degree in Psychology you jerk.

And yeah you need brains to get in - like a decent UAI, which is something that you could not achieve.

I least I have had several years in the computer industry when there were professionals around which is something to be envied, you god damned loser.

Damned webbie girlie-men who think they are in the IT Industry. No wonder the industry has gone to the dogs.

You no need any brains for that sort of work. Dreamers and losers all!

LMAO.

You girlie-men shouldn't post in public when you are not out of your tree on a Saturday night. It makes you look like fools.

Me - I am at home working on my essays due next week.

I am sure someone will pick these posts up searching on Google, showing the world everything that you are.

It is very apparent that the IT Industry has a common disrespect for people who are highly qualified and have achievements.

My good old friend Gloomyshoes is another example of the contempt that is displayed here (The Nerve Centre of the IT Industry).

Forgive me if I am wrong Gloomyshoes, but from what I remember from posts in the past, that he has a family to care for and that he has a degree in Computer Science and experienced 10 years in the industry before the gronks unceremoniously pulled his plug.

Of course this is completely and utterly stupid and foolish. There is simply no excuse and this disgusting behaviour is intolerable in this society.

I suppose it would be our resume to blame. Humph. What a load of utter pathetic crap! Of course we will take our brains and intellegence elsewhere where it will more appreciated like 1000's of others have. It is our right to choose to do so.

I have absolutely no doubt that the industry will lose a huge percentage of its workforce in the future and it deserves to be treated with the same contempt.

Nothing will ever change. The culture in in-bred and part of the DNA.

Feel free to take you brains and wealth of experience elsewhere and leave the 'current' IT Contractors to work things out for themsleves.

We don't need you telling us how great you are...but how at the same time you've been turned down for over 100 jobs - you're obvioulsy hot property!

Go off learn your new things and leave us all alone!

If you could actually get an IT job ......

Could be that you have a crap resume or it could be that noone wants what you're selling as you stuck in the 90s.

#1 Candidate to be sectioned under the Mental Health Act -: Hawkwind.

Mate the white-coats are on their way over. For your sake I'm hoping your comments are just the result of a lack of sleep.

I've been following the thread (on and off) and I tip my hat to Hawkwind for having the decency to continue to post the sour facts about IT.

Hawkwind is quite right - my IT career came to an abrupt halt in the early 2000's and it became very clear that the influx of cheap Asian workers

sounded the death knell of IT employment in Australia. Fast forward a few years and it feels like the IT employment market never left 2002.

Anyway, I can honestly say that I don't care about IT now. If the hospital has an IT problem (which it frequently does) then a little Indian person magically appears and I impatiently tap my fingers in front of him/her until the problem is fixed :)

Actually, to be honest, I treat IT people like sh!t. Everyday. And enjoy it.

I'm now a highly respected professional and I never acknowledge that I was ever involved in IT.

My advice to Australian citizens remains - leave IT to the Asians because you'll never compete on price and think long and hard about what to do next.

Where did you get "100" job applications from? I don't think I ever posted the number of jobs I applied for. Just shows how full of it you are. You are just guessing. I would like to see you prove your claims. I doubt that you have the skill. There is just miles too much evidence.

Secondly my IT skills are now used in a Virtual World where I do have success. Can't get anymore up-to-date than that. All through my career I was an early adopter of new technologies.

AND DON'T CALL ME MATE. I am NOT your mate. You know what mates do, don't you?

I have clear obvious proof that my age and experience experience was the reason.

The check the current Centrelink statistics and the quote I posted above.

This compulsive obsession disorder with resumes is really well worn out and proven to be a pathetic excuse. It is clearly demonstrated here that many can't even read!!!! Clearly the recruiters and the clients are incompetent. This is a well known fact worldwide. If course this is a reflection of the fact that the education system has failed miserably in reading, writing and mathematics. The education system is simply not turning out students ready for the workforce. The Chamber of Commerce has even voiced their concerns especially over the last 10-15 years.

Furthermore the potential clients are clueless also - they can hardly do anything innovative with the low-level skills that they hire. If you think they have - where is your proof?

The Australian IT Industry will never survive stuck in the the Middle Ages and its 19th century labour strategy.

The Australian webspace is so CRUDE its embarrassing!

Looks like we have some posers making themselves out to be experts on the medical profession as well. Well let me tell you - bring your dumb ideas into that industry - you will be shown the door real quick!

I've been following the thread (on and off) and I tip my hat to Hawkwind for having the decency to continue to post the sour facts about IT.

Thank you gloomyshoes. Those are the only facts I can find.

Hawkwind is quite right - my IT career came to an abrupt halt in the early 2000's and it became very clear that the influx of cheap Asian workers

Same experience for me and 1000's of others. We met on the Monster forums.

Fast forward a few years and it feels like the IT employment market never left 2002.

Still the same old boring crap. The dotcom crash did not change their abysmal ways, in fact, I don't think it has recovered.

Actually, to be honest, I treat IT people like sh!t. Everyday. And enjoy it.

As do I - and with the same contempt that was dished out to me. It's only fair, yes? Looks like they can't take it either. LMAO!!

My advice to Australian citizens remains - leave IT to the Asians because you'll never compete on price and think long and hard about what to do next.

Probably can't compete on skill either. Not only their training is better, but now they are very experienced as well thanks to the worldwide immigration programs over many years - America in particular.

The document pointed to in the link below made me realise exactly what was going on, that the industry still desperately tries to hide with the myth about resumes. It goes much much deeper than that and such myths are disproven in the light of the evidence and is simply an insult to the intellegence.

Debunking The Myths

The MODL is now proven to be faulty and in effect this has brought damage to people's legal right to decent work and to earn a living.

I don't normally use lol, but seriously. Hawkwind, you have just spent your entire weekend, including your Saturday night on a forum, for an industry you don't even like or want to be a part of, and we're the losers?

I doubt you are have the brains to even get a into uni, let alone the discipline to study anything like a medical degree. Your one "friend" on here is another sad loser who is congratulating you on "finding" negative articles. FFS, if that is not the definition of a loser, I'll happly sign up to Centre link tomorrow to save my own skin when I get fired.

To Paul, I said it before mate, I'll say it again, shut this piece of shit that you call a IT Forum down. You are doing no one any favours by keeping it open and \ or allowing these shit posts from obvious losers \ trolls to stay here.

>> If the hospital has an IT problem (which it frequently does) then

>> a little Indian person magically appears and I impatiently tap my

>> fingers in front of him/her until the problem is fixed :)

Gloomy mental hospital patient best not allow tap fingers asks tech problems fixes. Even Indian baby with lolly capable fix tech problem faster than gloomy. Hawkwind mainframe man same. Not learn web skill. But enjoy second life web site eats fruit from forbidden tree. Fools all not with GL skill. Easy meals for wall street bear.

As much as it pains me to say so - I agree with anon. It does not pain me because it is anon, it pains me because I used to really like coming here and used to find this site very useful.

Now it has become a soapbox for a few idiots who use the comments to abuse eachother and post rubbish.

Time for a change here. Maybe disable the comments or something?

Maybe that will push the 'trolls' out to another forum where they can post their crap and this site can again become wat it used to be.

Wait for it..... I'm sure the next comment will come from someone calling me an idiot or telling me that I'm a 457 slave or something equally useful!

How about it Paul - time for a change here?

Despite the G.F.C IT Immigration is to stay:

http://www.news.com.au/business/story/0,27753,25192244-462,00.html

Well, I think links posted by Hawkwind (MODL, 457 etc) very relevant and significant ;

I have a suspicion that some man with troubled mind (recruitment agent?) replying to Hawkwind informative posts under different names and with some lame personal attacks.

Why he is doing this? Denial ? Special Interests? Who knows.

I guess I now realise why I don't come to this site as often as I used to....

Amazing the only regulars left appear to be people who have stepped away from the I.T industry and have been spouting the same rubbish for the past 2 years (ie. 'the IT industry is dead'; 'go back to uni and get into a different vertical'; blah; blah; blah).

It is obvious the IT industry is open slather, every one for them self's, the ACS has totaly failed in regulating and promoted offshoring to the hilt.

What we need is protectionism or a regulator to watch the IT industry. A balance between local and offshore workers.

Some sort of social fairness and to enable reporting of abuse. Its incredible that after 10 years there is no such protection for workers/Contractors.

Also there needs to be watchdog on the IT recruitment industry as well and stop Racism/Ageism.

Some of them wont hire Local Australian any more.

SD

We need all comments

I believe we need all the comments weather bad or good, it reflects what state the IT industry is in and the feelings of present/post IT professionals.

The problem is there are to many spin doctor IT web sites trying to hide the truth.

We need these negatives/positives so info can be taken onboard by others up the food chain.

So to anon, hawkind, Happyshoes, Great Leopard, Andrzej, Socrates ect keep posting.

Your promoting Brainbox anyway.

We know the state of the IT industry in Australia is unjust and not regulated.

This industry became main stream in the late 90's and no one was sure what level of professionalism it goes under, but as soon as there was a flood of workers coming from University's and other educational institutions.

It has lost its status level from lawyers/ bankers/ financial/ doctors ect.

IT has become a cheap skill in the same level as Motor mechanics/ electronics/ welders.

sd

anon,

You better get to a bridge soon, there constructing safety fences.

so when you lose your job go and JUMP..

AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH splat.

>>IT has become a cheap skill in the same level as Motor mechanics/ electronics/ welders.

Yep. That about sums it up.

By the way does anybody know if IT/CS enrolments at uni's are still trending down?

Gloomyshoe tech career fail like one leg man enters butt kicking competition. Tech prestige if success. Industry top gun still big house, fast car with fast woman. Work hard plays hard. Success attitude is always.

I'll bet you can't get a job in your own country though otherwise you would not be here.

Meanwhile, Gloomyshoes and I go to University and study for a REAL professional career.

Working in a sloppy IT job is now like being a grease-monkey and have to pay a headhunter for your job.

AK, I've already lost my job, twice. You know what I did, I got off my arse and did something about it, first time I found another one and second time I started my own company and cut out the middle man.

You see, here is the difference, I'm in IT because I enjoy it, and I'm willing to get off my arse and do something about it. Most of the people complaining here expect jobs on silver platters, and when it doesn't happen (or it ain't for the amount they want) they complain, which is the perfect way to end up on the long term unemployed queue, as you become so bitter and cynical that no employer will hire you.

Big deal anon.

Your company won't last long and it will soon join the 1000's of deregistered companys at ASIC in the sector, the same way mine did. It will make no difference and you are only a one man band.

Besides, the current tax laws makes company contracting completely unviable. You are deemed by the ATO as an employee of your one and only client.

I formed mine in 1984. NOONE (not even a company) is indispensible.

Come back and advise when you get some experience in the art of running a company - its definately not a bed of roses - you are still a nOObie.

Thanks for the link Foreign worker cuts could cost jobs, says academic Phil Lewis

Also an interesting read is, all the 324 comments on this article.

Also check who Phil Lewis is. His head is stuck in the Sands of Canberra like the rest of them. Professor Phil Lewis

Its obvious Canberra that Canberra is out of touch with employment in the IT Industry.

Those affected should really do something about it by writing up a testimonial and evidence and sending it to all relevant Federal Ministers. Do not email it either - you will be fobbed off as they are not tech savvy. Send it via snail mail - registered post as well, so that you are sure they actually received it.

By the way does anybody know if IT/CS enrolments at uni's are still trending down?

They have not published enrolment statistics at the Uni I attend yet. The academic year has only just started 2nd March.

Based on what I observe, Life Sciences eclipse almost everything else by 5 times.

I have met someone there already that has got out of an IT major and is now doing something else after only doing one year.

You know nothing of my company. For starters I have more than one client (6 active clients at this point in time, plus many more previous clients who have indicated they want to use our services again) and I have 18 employees. Yes we are only small, but we have work lined up for many months still to come.

So when I said I got off my arse and did something I meant it.

but yes, this would be a positive thing which DH's like yourself hate seeing because it means that you really are a loser.

I saw companies much bigger than your little tin point go under during the dotcom crash.

You know nothing about mine either.

Besides your comments here are only heresay. What is your ABN so I check you up on ASIC?

If you are so great then why are you wasting your company's resources and productivity and your client's time surfing the web?

Hey SID

Well it didn't take long for the 'shit storm' (thanks KR) to kick off again.

Do you really think that any of this is adding value to the IT Industry?

I'm sure we all get it now - Hawkwind thinks IT sucks and is no longer in the Industry and Anon (like many of us) enjoys working in IT and continues to do so.

I've never heard anyone turn round to an independent shopkeeper and tell them that they are in a shit industry and that they will soon be closed down. Yet this site is full of similar statements.

Can we agreee to disagree and move on?

Give us a break.

Try feeding your crap to those business who are currently winding up and going into receivership every day.

Even in Silicon Valley has failed. There is a huge percentage of buildings in Silicon Valley who used to be thriving offices and labs which have now been converted into condos.

Those in the currently in the industry must be only doing work that only requires low-end labour and hobbyist skills that a 13 year old school boy can do. They don't even require University degrees.

The ITC Trade Deficit is enough clear evidence as well as the decaying tax receipts because of low wages and dropping enrollments in University.

Even school leavers are smart enough not to be gullable. All they need to do is look at the trouble their parents are in.

There have been big layoffs in the Perth IT scene (or what was left of it) since Christmas but I've heard that some big (local) names are about to close...should hit the news shortly.

Im already hired, Im self employed I get about the same as an IT worker.

so blow it out of your back side.

AK

Its inevitable.

Yup its called "society getting rid of the deadwood"!

Linden Lab, the founders of SecondLife, are always looking for good people.

At one stage they were advertising for people in Australia and no you won't have to move to the US. Maybe they still are - you could drop them a line.

Employment | Linden Lab

Currently they are replacing VPN's with a new fibre backbone - much more work ahead especially over the next 5-10 years.

Linden Lab shows absolutely no sign of going under; in fact its thriving like nobody's business.

Notice to Recruiters: Please do not submit resumes to our jobs site, to our employees or to Linden Lab by any other means, unless you have a written contract with us, signed by an officer of Linden Lab. We are not responsible for any fees related to unsolicited resumes.

My comment was aimed back to SID. Looking at how things work here putting @ before someones name mean that you are directing a comment at them. However, I thank you for your well versed and considered feedback.

Your response pretty much cemented my views of this site and the participation here.

@ before someones name mean that you are directing a comment at them.

Yes I started that idea here. It is popular convention on many forums overseas.

Looks like the revolving doors at Perth Airport will be racing off its bearings.

Perhaps the sponsors won't need to buy those 456/457 immigrants an air ticket back home.

The doors will simply slam them in the ass so hard the inertia will catapult them back home.

Why would I give you my ACN or ABN? I don’t even use my internet name (let alone real name) on this site due to the sheer venom from mostly trolls, such as your self.

To answer your question why I’m surfing the web during “work hours” who’s work hours are you referring to, because for me right now in my current time zone, work has finished.

But anyway, my main goal here is to get Paul into doing something good for the IT industry and prevent losers like your self from clogging up what could be a good IT forum.

I’m the first to admit the industry has its faults, but in those cases we should be discussing how to fix the faults rather than bitch about an industry which still good to work in. Like everything it’s what you make of it.

I was referring to your post at 11:20:11 AM. What timezone are you in to finish for the day at this time?

I can point out other posts made roughly at this time.

Who are you calling a troll?

I think you are right SID we a someone here with a multiple personality disorder

quote

I feel like I have split personaility syndrome, I have been posting wihtout realising it.

end quote

Posted by anon, 13/03/2009 03:38:14 PM

we should be discussing how to fix the faults

I won't hold my breath.

FYI: Brainbox has been exactly like this ever since it inception. Things will never change nor will the problems be fixed. The industry simply does not have the skills, intelligence or the inclination to do the neccessary.

Its going to take a hell of a lot more than the Brainbox victims to solve the abysmal employment prospects or to fix the failure of the IT Industry in this country to innovate.

I know for sure you can't anon. You would not know where to start.

".... The industry simply does not have the skills, intelligence or the inclination to do the neccessary. ...."

Does your obsesive negativity towards IT stem from some a traumatising incident where you were sacked by a recruiter and replacd by a sponsored candidate who was cheaper and a member of the ACS?

or

Are you just pissed off because you can't get an IT job (not that you want one)?

or

Do you believe that you have been sent by a higher power to save all of us working in IT from a fate worse than death?

Amazing the generalisations people on this forum (erm.. Hawkwind) make when referring to the I.T industry and its pending doom.

"I.T industry" would cover, DBA's, I.T support, Software Developers, network engineers, systems analysts, software testers, project managers, cio's, application implementations, I.T Trainers, etc... etc.. etc..

Hawkwind - care to comment on what your expertise was.

ICT workers akin to Motor mechanics/electronics/welders, etc..? Far from the truth. To begin with, most of the trades were taken off the MODL, not ICT though. If anything, they're in a similarly tenuous predicament as career fruit pickers here, albeit with inflated "degree$" & "cert$".

I think the ICT industry direly needs a reality check.

The comparison of the ICT "profession" to the real and better paid professions like Medicine/Law/Pharmacy/Architect is equally laughable. "Ah yes, the Missus and I are saving up/taking on a 2nd mortgage for Timmy and his sister to study at <insert name of elite private sch> and afford extra tuitioning so that he can get into the illustrious ICT profession..." lol. Never heard of that. Ever.

@Gloomyshoes: As of 2009, the ICT enrolments are still declining for locals but the average ENTER score is artifically kept higher b/c places are intentionally limited. HOWEVER -

ICT Faculties at certain unis(ahem, C--) seem to make up for the lost funding by overenrolling international students who use the ICT degree course as a convenient, sure-fire means of gaining permanent residency.

At the Uni I go to (XXXXXXX) IT is combined with Engineering. This makes enrollment and continuation statistics real confusing.

All of the above.

Are you still here? You can keep trying but it won't get you anywhere.

I am not even going to furnish you with that information let alone my CV or Functional Resume.

At least now we know where we stand.I think.

You should have been able to determine that by my posts over the past 3 years (almost 4) here at Brainbox.

I think most intelligent people should know my profile by now.

Hawkwind... you were still in ya mothers womb when I first started posting here.

3 years (almost 4).... bhah! You're embarassing yourself if you think thats a long[/] time.

It's idiots like yourself and 'Great Leopard' who've caused the 'old' regulars to move away, you seem to be more interested in turning this forum into a circus than posting anything even remotely informative.

I was contributing at the Monster.com.au forums a long time before I started posted here as Gloomyshoes will testify.

I have just received news from a source in the US that there was a conference held at Stanford and sponsored by the Sloan Coast Program on Science and Engineering Workers.

This third conference concerned the educational quality of the foreign workers, whether H-1B or offshore, an emphasis on the latter.

Each one of the speakers was involved in offshoring, most of them as CEOs or high-level managers. Some of the firms were startups, others were mid-sized, and several were huge--Intel, Tata Consultancy Services (TCS) and Wipro.

Some Main Points:

1. The TCS speaker defined "working age" in the industry as having the range 20-35!

2. The number of computer science students in the U.S. is down 50% nationwide, due to student concerns about offshoring and H-1B.

The Computing Research Association

3. H-1B is indeed "the outsourcing visa" from India's point of view, from the viewpoint of American employers, H-1B is "the age discrimination visa." The visa is used to hire younger H-1Bs (median age 27) and avoid hiring older (age 35+) U.S. citizens and permanent residents.

4. Age IS one of the central issues of H-1B.

5. Contrary to the image that only low-level grunt work is offshored, most of the speakers, including the one from Intel, are offshoring R&D.

6. Bill Pearson of Intel made a number of important remarks, he said time zone differences are big impediments to productivity, "...a challenge...Geography is important only in terms of time zone; good [software] developers are everywhere." He said that he used the CMMI project management system in Intel, just as with TCS et al, but that it is mostly not used in the U.S. (its value is greatly exaggerated, as its inventor has stated.)

7. There was one speaker who resorted to the "Americans are wimps, we Indians/Chinese are your saviors" attitude. This speaker, an Indian, said that Americans are lazy and will lose to India and China.

Of course there is plenty of evidence where U.S.-native engineers who worked long hours and give the company their all, only to be sloughed off from the industry at age 35.

Offshoring is closely linked to point 4. They work hand-in-hand.

Roger, I can attest that I have seen several of Hawkwind's posts outside Brainbox. He has certainly been around the block. In fact, AustralianIT has some of his posts if I am not mistaken. His contributions have been poignant.

Personally speaking, I find the whole "get young people to consider an ICT career" business (esp. from ACS) to be as distasteful as grave robbing & child sex slavery. In both cases, the crime is perpetuated on helpless victims who are also ignorant.

Any agenda that seeks to profit at such expenses, is truly deplorable. That the various unis' ICT Faculties continue to spruike this doomed career, is the height of taxpayer funded organised malfeasance.

The question is, how exactly are our local students supposed to repay their HECS loans when even entry level paying jobs have evaporated from the industry here?

With the looming HECS loan blowout, the next elected Government will do well to drastically lower the wage ceiling for HECS repayments.

Yes Starving, we are well aquainted.

It's idiots like yourself and 'Great Leopard' who've caused the 'old' regulars to move away, you seem to be more interested in turning this forum into a circus than posting anything even remotely informative.

First of all you should learn to use the forum's markup properly to format your post.

Secondly, The 'old' regulars, as you call them, have left the industry in total disgust. There are many as I don't see them posting anywhere else.

Thirdly, if you can read posts here you will see that I cannot tolerate the non-english "speaking" Great Leopard and his abusive and ignorant comments and lack of respect towards myself and others.

However, I have reason to believe that GL is mimicing the Indian "accent" to attract racist comments in an attempt to discredit those of us who have genuine concerns.

How dare you put me in the same pidgeon-hole as GL.

US H1-B Visa Applications - A Fraud Most Foul

Even recent Asian graduates are having problems finding a job in this climate.

Mr Jacky Leo graduated with a degree in Computer Science from Deakin University in Melbourne.

Since graduation, he has been unable to enter the industry.

He has now registered to be a Taxi Driver.

For gloomy and others who are interested, I uncovered the following snippet and related article.

Big Companies pick up cream of IT crop

About 2 weeks and 140 posts ago there was talk of Resumes. My point about having a solid Resume took a bit of abuse.

Sure, people’s opinions vary on the IT Industry and IT Recruiters, but it is common sense that having a good Resume is the starting point to getting any job.

Your Resume is the first point of contact with a recruiter or potential employer. If your Resume does not meet the reader’s expectations you will fall at the first hurdle.

I fail to see how asking for a Resume that is simple, focused and easy to understand is caused of a psychological condition.

I also cannot understand how refusing to update your Resume to fit with what recruiters and employers are asking for is going to do any good?

Hawkwind has no interest in find a job. He has said so himself, but those of you that are interested in find a job make sure your resume does what it is supposed to do, i.e. give the reader an instant targeted and concise summary of exactly what you can offer them.

Hawkwind: “Why make allowances for incompetance and lack of attention to details, especially when someones livelihood is at stake?”

The answer is simple – “to get a job”

Resume readers' expectations change over time and jobseekers who do not keep up with the changes will be left behind – doesn’t matter what industry you are working or trying to work in.

If you are looking for work, I suggest ignoring Hawkwind's career advice.

This document shows the trend in enrolments in all courses at University of Sydney 2004-2008.

University of Sydney - Statistics 2008

I would advise you to go and get some professional help with that obsessive compulsive psychological problem you have there.

Or perhaps that you suffer from myopia in which case you need an optometrist.

Or there is a huge posibility that you have an IQ of a moron (IQ of moron = 50)

Would you be so kind as to elaborate?

Which “obsessive compulsive psychological problem” are you referring to?

I understand that you are currently studying psychology, but your diagnosis is rather vague.

Also, would love to understand why you believe I have an eye disorder and/or a low IQ?

Rather sweeping (and insulting) statements with little substance to back them up aren't they?

Would you be so kind as to elaborate?

NO

Which “obsessive compulsive psychological problem” are you referring to?

Your question is irrational.

I understand that you are currently studying psychology....

Is that all you got. I am also working in another industry as well as starting a business in another.

Also, would love to understand why you believe I have an eye disorder and/or a low IQ?

Because it obvious can't read.

Rather sweeping (and insulting) statements with little substance to back them up aren't they?

So were yours.

The items you need to get and keep a job are:

1. Training.

2. Qualifications

3. Experience (except on entry into an occupation)

If you are unemployed and applying for work, any more than six weeks without any joy, start doing something about getting into another occupation or profession. I much easier than all the mumbo jumbo.

The one and only mistake I made is that I waited around far too long, in hope, before acting.

The IT recruitment process has become more complicated then the skills required for the job which is is a total an utter INSULT to anyone achieving items 1, 2 and 3.

There is no rational thought process going on here.

It's like communicating with a spoilt child.

Definately not! The industry is dead - that enough evidence for me.

Run along now - get professional help as I advised.

After the six(6) week period of unemployment and you are on NewStart Allowance, Centrelink start turning the screws down on the unfortunates who are unemployed after this period.

The abuse gets much worse.

Just wondering how it is these days.

Is the IT Industry and the headhunters just as shonky as ever?

Do they still persist in posting bogus and fraudulant job advertisements?

My feeling is that they will never learn anything about Fair Trading and Trade Practice laws.

Seeing as the recruiters are supposed to be a gateway between employers and jobseekers they should at least have formal qualifications and the individuals licensed.

There is already a Watchdog for Trade Pactices - The ACCC.

Expecting the usual abuse after the last post.

Hawkwind, thanks to your last post I think I have figured you out.

You where quite successful in the 90's, especially with the impending 2000 world down toilet bug, complete with teh dot com boom, where VC's would through money at anything with both the letters I and T somewhere in the title.

In the crash you lost your job, since then you've being trying to find something which pays the same. Given however that VC's where looking for the next big thing to invest their money into you where unable to to find a job paying as much. Given the nature of contracting you where also caught off guard that during a slump, contracts are oftan not worth the paper they are written on.

Fast forward a few years, you have being in a few different jobs, none paying anywhere near what you used to be able to command. The problem is that you had started to become cynical during those downturn years which means that when interviewed for positions you where overlooked. At that stage recruiters (and yes I'll happily that some are scum) started to ignore you as you where no longer a valuable person to them, except of course for their leads teams.

Given your nature, you do not want to admit it's your fault that you have become cynical. You where at a point in time that no matter what the industry does for you, you remember the bad times and the cynical you sabotages any changes for you get ahead in the industry. Therefore moving into something completely new was the only way you where going to get yourself out of this rut, and for that I commend you.

The problem is now that because the IT industry was rough to you, and that you where unable to adapt to the rough times you assume no one can. Thus is the basis of your warnings. This is where I have a problem with you. Sure if people asked you directly what your thoughts are of the industry, go right ahead and say it's sucks as that is from your prospective. But coming here and posting stuff completely off topic about how bad things are according to the media (completely forgetting that the media never reports the good stuff, as good stuff rarely sells newspapers) pisses me off, and in most forums you'd be warned, suspended, and then kicked off.

We get it, you hate the industry, which is why it's so sad you are probably one of the largest posters here.

The comments made about why am I doing that rather than working, well to me keeping a finger on the pulse of the industry is important, it's how I know how to position myself, it's how I know what I should and should not be doing, and to a degree it shows me who to talk to.

Also don't assume that everything posted under the anon name is the one person. Because it ain't - thus the basis for my split personality comments, as I had just logged on and noticed that someone else was posting under the name.

So to cut a long story short, hawkwind, it's good you've left the industry, because with your level of cynicism, you where never going to do well in it again, for everyone else, it is still a good industry to work in, and despite popular belief here, not every job has been off shored, you can still get quite a good job if you are willing to look for it

As always we have reverted back to attacks on IT Recruiters - and again lead by a man who is not even working in IT, no longer deals with IT Recruiters.

If you have something interesting and valid to contribute, why not write an article under your real name and ask Paul to publish as a thread.

At the moment it seems to me like you are just using this forum as you own personal blog.

I hope for your sake that your participation here is part of your psychology studies to see how people respond and react to your 'interesting' posts.

Hawkwind, thanks to your last post I think I have figured you out.

No you haven't - but you will get there eventually. Tell you what I will help you with corrections of your assumptions.

You where quite successful in the 90's, especially with the impending 2000 world down toilet bug, complete with teh dot com boom, where VC's would through money at anything with both the letters I and T somewhere in the title.

I was sucessful in the late 70's, 80's and 90's. The Y2K crap was a complete bogus at the coal face. The only people who made money out of that ballyhoo where industry panic merchants, people generating heaps of white/green paper and Government from their rhetoric. They were even going to tax the maintenance.

There is even a good episode of The Simpsons that is a good skit on the "BIG DISASTERS" would happen in society when the clock struck 12 on the 1st Jan 2000. Of course nothing happened did it!

There was even some one selling a Y2K Bug spray as a novelty fun thing. Some fool sprayed it on his computer hoping to remove the bug. Nothing happened - so he rang up the company selling the stuff and complained.

The fact is I was working on a project in Defence for more amost four years. During this project there was a task to "investigate and remedy" our applications for the fictitous Y2K Bug. Of course we found nothing - I have always known the correct algorithm for years on how to calculate a leap year correctly.

In the crash you lost your job, since then you've being trying to find something which pays the same. Given however that VC's where looking for the next big thing to invest their money into you where unable to to find a job paying as much. Given the nature of contracting you where also caught off guard that during a slump, contracts are oftan not worth the paper they are written on.

Not correct. I had a lower expectation for another reason.

One of my core skills was no longer marketable. During the Defence contract I updated my skills. The web had just started during this time - naturally I took interest. I already had network engineering, database, office automation expertise and much more. A webserver is only a webserver - its a toy for me. I also attended training courses for ColdFusion - there where many opportunities which I gladly applied - right up my alley.

Fast forward a few years, you have being in a few different jobs, none paying anywhere near what you used to be able to command.

Only $10/h less for my new skills and yes I managed to get 3 contracts. No complaints there.

The problem is that you had started to become cynical during those downturn years

During my working life I have experienced a few downturns. Before the dotcom crash there was one in the early nineties. Actually the dotcom crash was not the reason. The Federal Government where implementing outsourcing strategies 1998-1999.

...which means that when interviewed for positions you where overlooked.

All three interviews with clients resulted in a contract. (see above)

Given your nature, you do not want to admit it's your fault that you have become cynical.

You are a very poor judge of character - especially in this medium - but more on that issue later as its relative.

You where at a point in time that no matter what the industry does for you, you remember the bad times and the cynical you sabotages any changes for you get ahead in the industry.

Not correct. Firstly, the industry was negligent - in other words they new my situation and did nothing. Secondly, this is irrational gibberish. If I have translated you poor English phrasing correctly, you are confusing my persona in this 2D medium with real life behaviour, which you have never encountered. I was always highly professional in all aspects while I was active in the industry.

The problem is now that because the IT industry was rough to you, and that you where unable to adapt to the rough times you assume no one can. Thus is the basis of your warnings.

There are several posters here at Brainbox besides you AND many of them are having the same experiences as myself. I am helping them. Obviously you don't so what in the hell does this have to do with you - my posts are not directed at you.

This is where I have a problem with you. Sure if people asked you directly what your thoughts are of the industry, go right ahead and say it's sucks as that is from your prospective. But coming here and posting stuff completely off topic

All of my posts are on topic and follow the line of conversation - NONE OF YOURS DO!!!!!!

So to cut a long story short, hawkwind, it's good you've left the industry, because with your level of cynicism, you where never going to do well in it again, for everyone else, it is still a good industry to work in, and despite popular belief here, not every job has been off shored, you can still get quite a good job if you are willing to look for it

You are spruicking duckie. The whole planet knows its dead including the Australian Government.

My comments are highly regard in the forums I frequent. Currently Brainbox is the ONLY forum I post this stuff in.

A fair few of posts are not from the media - perhaps the media posts are the only ones you have clicked on. Most of the posts are simply are cut and paste of the first couple of paragraphs of the article and the link.

The mass media is driven by the majority of the general population and in case you have not noticed recently the immigration issues are now a hot topic. As a result the Government will now listen at last.

I am going to keep going with this line until the problem is fixed. Just because I am NOT working in the IT Industry as YOU know it means nothing. The IT Industry is the father of temporary immigration.

AND THAT ANON IS THE REASON I CANNOT GET A JOB NOTHING ELSE.

It's likewise with people in many occupations now. Not only IT and they are not going to tolerate it either. The evidence is against your in YOUR DENIAL and accusing me for my shortcomings is a way off mark as is your irrational crap.

Go to some other place where they say good things about IT and get off my back before I boot YOU out of here.

New thread up now - this thread is done.

Your planning on changing the world by posting a few posts in a open internet forum?

Also how are you going to boot me from an open internet forum? This is half my complain about this place is that anyone can post.

Also don't accuse me of going off topic, this topic was hijacked by you. 04/03/2009 11:02:08 AM in case you didn't remember. That was the first off topic post here.

You are carrying on like a PORK CHOP!

>> Go to some other place where they say good things

>> about IT and get off my back before I boot YOU

>> out of here.

Hawkwind man of abuse and delusion believe own forum. Perhaps just rename WWW.HAWKBOX.COM.AU like reality.

Happy nights.

GL

Arghhh its the wanker again who believes the IBM Mainframe is ancient.

Here is the lastest and greatest mainframe offering from IBM:

IBM System Z

Your persona suggests that you would not understand the specifications - its a way out of your league.

.

Further up in this thread there was a post with a link to this article.

Foreign worker cuts could cost jobs, says academic Phil Lewis

In the Readers comments section there is a very interesting post as follows:

Adam of Brisbane (89) I really don't understand your comments. I'm a manager for IT division and an Australian. I am looking for a qualified professional for one of my teams. I have interviewed nearly 50 till date (nearly 40 of them are locals), but most of them are not even fit for the post. I have only choice of getting people from overseas, so that I can give uninterrupted & quality service to my clients.

Posted by: tes dentura 10:02am today Comment 107 of 324

Naturally this very interesting and informative post by tes dentura had a couple of responses as follows:

tes dentura >> If you go through 50 resumes for a position without filling it, then it's time to look at your interview process. I work in training and assessment in enterprise IT, one thing we come across regularly is ineffective assessment procedures during the interview process hampering communication. Example: how do you test programmatic skill? Auditorily? Most engineers are highly kinesthetic...you just ruled out 90% of your applicants through communication style mismatch. Do you have one of your senior IT engineers performing a "tech quiz"? This common practice limits all your potential applicants to those that, by a freak of probability, happen to have studied the same areas as your senior IT engineer. Inability to find IT staff, IMHO, is more to do with the interview process and expectations than actual talent being available. Lets face it, the main reason people source overseas IT staff is that they work 80hrs/week for $50,000pa rather than 40 hrs/week for $120,000.

Posted by: Adam of Brisbane 11:44am today Comment 177 of 324

AND

Tes Detura(107) I would definately question your competence required for the position of the hiring and firing that you hold. The IT industry has a bad reputation.

Posted by: Peter 1:14pm today Comment 235 of 324

Now! tes denturas ulterior motives are clear. In order to hire temporary immigrants you need to advertise in Australia first. tes dentura knows this and views the local applicants in this light. tes dentura has no will, inclination, or incentive, to hire a local professional.

There is much tangible evidence, proven a while back by Professor Norman Matlof and others, that the temporary immigration visas are also "age discrimination visas".

AGE DISCRIMINATION ACT 2004

The visas are also racist. There is nothing in the Racial Discrimination Act that says that it is legitimate that one race can discriminate their own. In particular, it clearly states that race (that means any race) cannot obstruct anyone, which includes Australian born nationals, from their legitimate human right to housing and a job and a means of subsistance.

RACIAL DISCRIMINATION ACT 1975

Therefore logically, the past education, skills and experience of a local professional is completely worthless.

Still on topic - "the current climate" - and right now openly discussed by the public at large.

Go and create you own blog and post your shit there dickhead.

HW is far from a dickhead - s/he has been around the block a couple of times and knows stuff that you should know.

If you (and everybody else) paid attention then you might learn something - but wait - you're IT people aren't you? OK....I forgot that your collective capacities to learn are very limited due to your Asbergers.

Big Companies pick up cream of IT crop

A headline like that once again reinforces a long held indication that it's an ICT employer's market. Who in their right minds would want to spend 3-4 years at university, doing the hard slog only to be told they were not good enough or that in spite of being new graduates, they cannot be hired because they lack 3-5 years of industrial experience?

With odds like that, one'd be better off punting at a casino than choosing a "career" in ICT. At least, in the casino, you'd know the result of your wager at the end of each punt rather than to be fed cow manure-type propaganda for 3-4 years at University that pretty much prepares one for what is really a non-existent career.

I will continue my anti-immigration and anti-offshoring campaign with due diligence totally unswayed by the attitudes of anon and others of his/her ilk.

Those who respond to my posts in a negative way only indicate one thing - they are the biotoxins and cancers of todays society. Just as well they are in the minority - they have even made it easier by joining certain associations.

They even make a feeble attempt to quash my Freedom of Speech.

HECS blowout is truly looming - and it is what I have been saying for years...

The commoditification of higher ed is no longer viable if there isn't ROI - that is, gaining employment after graduation. If anything, the situation is now a fraud when the unis clamour and scheme with vacuous courses and sanguine employment propaganda just to fill seats & partake in the Fed Gov asinine higher ed largesse. ICT is among the few leading courses with dipping TER/UAI scores bordering on the mediocre and worse. Yet colluding with the slavish ICT industry groups in creating delusions of career opportunities, ICT Faculties continue to massively enrol academically weak students for funding. These victims would have been better off entering the workforce after Year 12 HECS DEBT-FREE than making an expensive and useless 3-4 year detour at the unis to obtain a paper that hardly helps in gaining employment in an oversaturated market of disappearing entry-level jobs.

It would be interesting to see how the education rort pans out. The gravy train will dry up very soon and the famine among higher ed debtors will be catastrophic.

-----

Student racks up $310K HECS debt

http://www.news.com.au/story/0,27574,25223806-421,00.html

INDIVIDUAL university students are racking up hundreds of thousands of dollars in HECS debts that may never be paid off.

Only took them the best part of a decade to figure this out:

Pressure to rein in corrupt colleges

Seems the wheels are falling off the Howard governments Higher Education policy to create crap degree factories.

D, fair enough but the news article you referred to is mainly concerning international students and private colleges. That is not to say the sacred unis are not above such PR rackets.

The blowout was local students borrowing HECS to do uni courses they either have no chance at succeeding or finding gainful employment with upon graduation - ICT being the most common course.

That depletes the coffers and will likely cause the Fed Gov soon to increase revenue-raising activities.

The amount of money owed by Australian university students and graduates via the HECS deferred repayment scheme is expected to blow out by 15 per cent during the current financial year, new figures show.

The Australian Taxation Office figures show the projected accumulated Higher Education Contribution Scheme (HECS) debt will be $13.292 billion in 2005/06, up from $11.56 billion the previous year.

The deferred HECS loan scheme was introduced by the Hawke government in 1989 and is now repaid when a graduate's income reaches $35,000 a year.

In 1997, the Howard government modified the HECS scheme into three bands, with different rates for different courses based on estimated graduate salaries.

Education Minister Brendan Nelson this year allowed universities to increase HECS fees by up to 25 per cent.

With almost two million people having used HECS to gain access to higher education, the government maintains it has no problem with the increasing debt as it proves the system is working.

But opposition education spokeswoman Jenny Macklin said the blowout from the HECS hikes would continue to be felt.

October 26, 2005 - 12:04AM

"The Howard government's massive 25 per cent HECS fee hikes mean that ($13.3 billion) figure is certain to rise, having an even greater impact on students and their families," Ms Macklin said.

"These HECS hikes are pushing the cost of higher education beyond many Australian families at a time when Australia has a severe skill shortage in key professions and industries."

HECS debt soars to new record level

Hawkwind, the suggestion that education debt is an obstacle against going to uni is misleading. With a majority of youngsters these days having no qualms on spending more than they earn, I believe they will gleefully get into HECS debt if they think uni is the next fun destination (and hopefully, a ticket to a great job) before getting into the real working world.

That said, what worries me is the what the Fed Gov will have to do eventually to regain more $$$ from the citizens (incl debtors) to prop up the failing HECS system.

Is it not obvious by now that ICT HECS is pretty much a waste since -

1. there are no real jobs for graduates of sham uni courses like ICT.

2. these graduates will never reach the wage ceiling to start repaying HECS because they are more than likely be underemployed or unemployed long term.

How long more can this untenable situation persist?

2. these graduates will never reach the wage ceiling to start repaying HECS because they are more than likely be underemployed or unemployed long term.

This hits the nail on the head. It is not the individuals HECS BAD DEBT but the total bad debt from the point of view of the government and the taxpayer.

Do not limit your thinking to just ICT either - its only a small percentage of the total.

The total bad debt on the government's accounts is humungus. This is not the graduates fault. They have entered the academic world in good faith as I have.

Like most corporate bad debt, the government will have to write it off. The debtor, like any other, cannot be forced to repay the debt if they are unable or the graduate has not earning over the threshold.

Additionally, many graduates now have to go overseas, because there are no opportunities here. Thats not their fault. In this case the debt will NEVER be paid.

Many of my fellow students who are fully fee paying students, including myself, are concerned that there will be no return on the investment. Many are from wealthy families.

Additionally, many are at university because there is nothing else better to do, especially those with high UAIs.

There are many secondary school students who return to continue their education because the job market is barren.

There has been a rumour that HECS will be abolished and the taxpayer foot the bill. Specifically the corporate taxpayer.

I am a strong believer in the "user pays" philosophy. The corporates expect everything to come shrink-wrapped, like a commodity and placing the onus on families who are already struggling to meet basic living costs - particularly over the past decade. This has to change.

Come on guys. From a students point of view, HECS debt is the best debt you can have as it is at a low interest rate (pretty much CPI), there is no need to repay it until you earn over the threshold and lastly the debt gets existinguished when the punter dies (unlike other debts).

As for the Government, they will continue to fund HECS as they perceive it as an investment in Education (which it is). Making Tertiary education affordable for the punters is one of the best things a Government can do. I'd like to see evidence of the "failure" of HECS before we write it off.

Hawkwind & Yoda,

Indeed, HECS started as an earnest means to finance tertiary studies. I don't deny that it certainly alleviated the costs associated with a 3-4 year detour from the working world.

However, like all good intentions, it was soon exploited by the enterprisingly rapacious tertiary institutions as an income stream that was virtually recession-proof.

These tertiary institutions then got smart and decided that degrees could be, more than anything else, a bill-of-goods to be profited from. Hence, you now see all kinds of frivolous, droll courses being "degreed" and "industry-approved", even if no actual industry demand existed (=NO JOBS), in order for those unis to slavishly sip from the HECS gravy train.

What I would like to see is a more rigorous approval process of what is HECS supported. It seems all manners of degree courses are almost automatically approved by virtue of it being uni conducted.

@Hawkwind

The big business in the various industries might cry for manpower shortage, but the tab will continue to be picked up by taxpayers (HECS) to maintain an employer's market with the oversupply of desperate graduates. It will also use subtly threatening rhetorics like "Australia falling behind in the OECD in competitively skilled workforce" to keep the status quo. The Fed Gov had ALWAYS fell for that line and the biggest kick in the guts will be that these big businesses will justify utilising cheap overseas labour onshore or off.

I'd like to see evidence of the "failure" of HECS before we write it off.

In terms of professional business accounting a Bad Debit must be written off in the same financial year it occurred or perceived.

A Bad Debt is a debt that will never be repaid - and there is a wide variety of choices here.

So... now .... we have a massive billion dollar+ bad debt, which is essentially funds that are NOT coming into the tax system to pay the students' fees. Therefore the taxpayer ends up footing the bill anyway, including having to feed in additional Federal tax money into the University system.

April 17, 2009

LONDON (MarketWatch) -- Sony Ericsson Mobile Communications on Friday said it's going to cut about a fifth of its workforce following a first quarter in which the maker of mobile phones lost 293 million euros ($386 million).

The program will cut 2,000 jobs and require a restructuring charge of 200 million euros.

Sony Ericsson to cut 2,000 jobs after loss

Sony Ericsson reports first quarter results

I wonder how many ICT Workers lose out here?

April 20, 2009

SAN FRANCISCO (MarketWatch) -- Oracle Corp. on Monday said it will buy Sun Microsystems Inc., creator of widely used Java software, in a $5.6 billion, all-cash deal that unites two of Silicon Valley's most storied technology companies.

Oracle to buy Sun Microsystems for $5.6 billion

Just recently the Australian mass media has only just discovered Twitter and spreading their misleading delusions, myths and low-level hype to the Australian public.

Jack Dorsey created Twitter in 2006. Some of the artwork was created by a Sydney artist and designer Yiying Lu.

Australia still persists on being the laggards and the ass-end of the world when it comes to ICT technology and innovation.

I thought this topic ("How to work with the current climate") might be an interesting read with some similarly interesting comments.

Instead the comments are dominated by Hawkwind's crusade against IT. The comments even degenerate into a pile of rants about HECS, which has absolutely nothing to do with the topic at hand (unless you're using some kind of perverse logic).

What's most amazing is he has the nerve to hijack the thread and then insult other people whilst claiming "All of my posts are on topic and follow the line of conversation".

What a joke.

No wonder people are giving up on this site.

This comment was removed as it contained offensive content.