Dingo,

I graduated in engineering, now that was a waste of time given I went straight into IT about 10 years ago.I learned stuff like imaginary directional vectors in cubes, what a waste of life.

In your case you made the right decision up front.

Here is what you do to get a job as a graduate, this worked for me about 12 years ago.

REWRITE your resume for each job you apply for.

Try and match the resume with the position as much as you can, remember that keyword matches are everything.

In the case of a graduate, dont worry about the experience side of things too much as they want to see a bright guy who knows how to program (and who wants to work for less than an old timer like me). To prove you can program or what ever, bring in some of your work on paper and explain your ideas dont be shy, remember as a graduate they are looking for personality just as much as technical expertise.Even if your resume is completey bogus, you will get an interview, all you have to do is back it up, whether its true or not.

Put a couple of things on your resume or business that you worked for (even if you havent), just make sure you know what you say on your resume as much as you can, get a friend to be your refeence , yes bend the truth a little, dont worry agents are the biggest liars around, if they think they can sell you to a client they will.

Remember agents know nothing other than how to sell their mothers, they will be more interested that you look good and you can keep your story straight with regards to your resume, show some flair and enthusiasm and they will hold you in high regard.

When you are with the client, the same applies, but try and show what you have learned, show what you want to be and more importantly show what you can do for them. Remember there not expecting that much from a graduate, wow them out with your knowledge and enthusiasm.

Over the last few years companies are always looking for cheaper ways to do routine tasks, rather than paying an experienced person, they are hiring cheap labour from overseas or they can hire a graduate that speaks and understands english better, so the chances exist, just gotta play the game better.

I had a friend who graduated as the same time as me and did not get a job for 2-3 years, I got one right after leaving, all because I market myself better, work on this and you are sure to get an interview. My friend by the way was close to being a genius, always got better marks than most people at uni, its all about playing the game.

Remember be positive, and show what you can do, forget the rest.

Hope this helps

Dingo,

As a graduate you are NOT expected to have much experience. What most employers are looking for in a graduate is someone with the right attitude and drive. They know they will be teaching you the rest.

Don't let lack of experience hold you back. David B makes a lot of good points. Most important of them; Marketing is everything. Especially as a grad. Afterall, you need to distinguish yourself from all other applicants.

Here's a suggestion on how to gain bonafide experience. Go and contribute to an open source project. There are plenty of them around, and they are always happy for the help. You do not always have to contribute code, you can write documentation, do some testing. The list of chores is endless.

These are the sorts of things that will put you ahead of someone else in an employer's eyes. They want to see that you haven't been sitting at home watching Opera and Rikki Lake for the last 2 years.

If you expect the jobs to come to you, you will forever be the bridesmaid. Action always beats inaction. There, that's enough cliches for one posting.

Good luck.

Dingo,

Try some of these ideas:-

1. Register your own company name as a sole-trader company (http://www.abr.gov.au/). You don't actually have to operate the company - see next...

Get business cards printed or print your own - I get sheets of perforated card stock at my supermarket, setup my design in Word and print on my InkJet - the quality is not quite as good, but adequate. Remember to spray InkJet printing with an aerosol craft fixative lacquer to stop smudging and it stiffens the cards too.

2. Find IT related voluntary work. Try charities or a large church. You should at least be able to get some web-site maintenance work or membership system work. I donated a web site to a charity auction, value about $3000, only raised $200, but I got to build a site from scratch, including my company name and contact details on every page's meta-data and link on the fott of every page. Find a similarly unemployed uni. collegue with graphics expertise if you need help in that area.

2a. Start compiling a "Portfolio" of examples of your work.

3. Include all your voluntary work on your resume under your own company name as "Independant Consultant/Contractor".

4. Do some non-IT but business related short courses - eg. Introductory Accounting.

I then volunteered as treasurer to a charity I work with and got 4-5 years experience book-keeping. Get the org. to buy a cheap version of MYOB or such, then install and keep the books on it. Add the MYOB installation to your resume.

5. Join/attend as many networking events as you can - eg. ACS SIG meetings, User Groups, corporate presentations. For the later, choose the big companies in your area of interest and monitor their web site. Having your own company name will help get into some of these later seminars as a "Consultant" - sometimes you even get a free lunch. Eg. I went to a COGNOS Business Briefing recently.

6. Network: Circulate at these meetings, exchanging business cards, find out what work companies are doing and potential openings - keep records. Start building up your own contacts database, even if its only a Windows Address Book. Keep in touch with your friends and acquaintances.

7. Get into the habit of writing. Its too easy to fall into the habit of being an information consumer only, and not produce anything. Consider blogging you thoughts as you browse articles on the web. If you are so inclined, create your own quarterly e-mailed newsletter.

Follow David's ideas above too. Keep plugging away.

Its not any easier at the other end either. I'm 55 and all my experience is dated, so having trouble getting interviews too. 2 years unemployed 2001-2 and currently 5mths, 80 applications and counting.

Good luck.

Just to prove to you that marketing and knowledge and not necessarily experience can get you a job.

I have just got a job as a Java/PL/SQL developer/Software architect. Now how did I get this job if I have done mainly DBA for the past few years. And not much Java at all. The important thing is that you can backup what your resume sais.

Well, as listed above, alter your resume to reflect the position, then make sure you know what your resume sais.

At my recent interview for this position, they asked me a series of questions on programming and databases etc etc. I answered most of them correctly, because I have got some experience in some of it, but the other stuff, I have read about and have a passing interest in, so I am able to answer odd questions on them. It can be nerve racking going to an inverview on this sort of plan, however it has worked for me on other occasions as well, you cant be expected to know everything, give it a real go.

Once you answer the questions you are there and the job is yours, all you have to do after than is make sure you dont swear at the inverview and show you are keen and bright and will get along well with the other indians.

If you dont know the answer to a question, change the question and answer that, it works more often than you think, remember your actions speak louder than words.

You need to give them confidence that you know what you are doing.

As another example about 8 years ago when c++ was sort of becomming a big thing I deciced I really wanted to become a c++ programmer because it looked like money aplenty and jobs galore, so I read a book on the weekend on c++ and got 55% on an exam on monday at the agency, not enough to give me a contract job I was looking for but the agency put me on the list as a full time possibility.

I later went to a company and they tested me on the spot right there in front of all the technical folks with a bit of code etc. I Passed!!, needed some help along the way, but they proded me for information and I realized my mistake and corrected it, they gave me the job!! All for two days reading. Why did the agencies even send me to the client? Well because I put down that I have done c++, well I had, in books and on the weekend, but who's to know, but you, and as long as you can live with yourself, the jobs will keep on comming.

Bye the way, I had just accepted the job I have told you about, but had another lined up as well as others in earlier stages. The system works trust me.

The moral of the story is knowledge is all you need when you are a graduate, your experience can be reflected as a fabrication on your resume, just dont over do it.

Whatever happened to honesty and integrity?

>> Put a couple of things on your resume or business that you worked for (even if you havent)

>>your experience can be reflected as a fabrication on your resume

This is bad advice. I'm not saying I've never overstated things on my resume but I've never said I've done something when I haven't. If/when you get found out your reputation will be mud.

Dingo, the marketing and networking ideas are good: Seek and recruiters aren't the only place to find jobs. Have a read of the

Hidden job market articles

It's hard making the phone calls but it is worth it. Not just because it may get you work but because it'll also give you control of your job search, rather than placing it in the hands of recruiters.

Hi Dingo,

I graduated 3 years ago from a Computer Science degree and I'm happy to say I had no problems getting interviews for graduate programs, though I believe I was lucky to get a job offer (I was close to missing out).

What types of jobs are you applying for? Most companies with graduate programs don't expect any experience and it sounds odd that you haven't managed to get an interview. Obviously trying out for a contract role with no experience won't get you very far.

Don't take this the wrong way, but how much actual programming did you do in an IS degree? I speak from experience with friends who have done IS and there seems to be very little programming compared to a CS degree. If coding is not your thing perhaps apply for a graduate position in one of the big 4 (though I think its now the big 3??) consulting firms? They tend to learn on the job and image plays a big part for them. Many of them recruit people for their IT stream even though they have not done an IT degree. I know a few people who have done Arts or Commerce who got their start in IT through a consultant firm.

Learning to sell yourself is very important as David mentioned above. From my graduate year, there are a handful of people who are brillant at what they do, however still haven't got a job because they flop in interviews and don't present themselves well. Unfortunately these were the same people who didn't really do much at Uni except study and have never worked in their life.

Sorry to ramble on, but its just that I know so many people from my grad group who are in your situation, but the key is to keep trying and make sure you target the right jobs...everyone has to start somewhere and the first job after graduating is the toughest to get (IMO). Good luck and keep trying!

Bigbie

Honesty and integrity are probably un-employed.

Honesty and integrity have nothing to do with GETTING a job, (have more to do with keeping one) an employer wants and needs a skill and you have to prove to them you can give it to them, full stop.

Offcourse if you can prove to them you are honest and are full of integrity this will also help, but you only have 15 mins to prove this at an inteview.

I'm glad I've provoked a little bit of action on this topic, maybe I'm a little far out there, but I stand by what I have wrote.

You have years on the new job you just got to prove your honesty and integrity.

I have a long list of happy past employers, regardless of what I said to get in there.

As an employee you owe it to yourself and to the company to get yourself hired because you know you'll do the job better than anyone else, if you have to coax them to get you in there its for their own good, and for yours offcourse.

I'm guessing that you'd be about 23. Still young enough to cover up the gap between graduation and employment reasonably easily.

It may not be a problem at the moment but with the pace of technology it is something to be mindfull of. Even if it doesn't change...if you haven't been using it you will lose it.

Consider a trip O/S. Even if it is imagined. That should cover about 12 months. Possibly even actually go somewhere to search. Your Accent is worth more O/S. You are different and interesting. This relates to product positioning and marketing. We are a Global workforce.

It will also take your mind of the worry of not having work, even if you get work in a pub you are doing something different and interesting..meeting people and they would usually be interested in you too. From that you may develop genuine contacts.

At your age (assumtion) you can obtain working holiday visas for many places.

The same rules apply when looking for work O/S, presentation, marketing, truth... But in subtley different ways. This then gives you marketability back here.

You can always bend, massage, stretch, and hide the truth. Sometimes smoke and mirrors can help but IMHO you should not break or fabricate the truth.

I have worked in several industries ranging from “blue collar” electrical & electronics trades positions to graduate management and IT positions. I have come to the conclusion that Australia is just no good for graduates!

As a blue collar worker I could walk into virtually any position and before starting my degree I was a project manager. Now with a degree and 10 years of post degree experience (20 years experience in total) I am no better off professionally or financially and I find jobs more difficult to get.

My advice to any graduate would be to get your degree and leave the country. I had several opportunities to do this and for family reasons did not go. Those friends I mine who did are much better off than I am both professionally and financially.

I have researched this area for years and while I believe that obtaining that degree straight out of school is a very smart move I believe that once you have a degree you should look at moving to a country that has a larger choice of major corporations.

Also, for those who have some experience, don’t look at going to university as a mature age student, as I did, unless your company is paying and its part time. Few mature aged graduates get the positions they worked towards and many end up with a more unstable employment and the pay (in Australia) is often lousy especially considering the time, effort and money you put in to get the degree.

I think the point here is, graduates are global players and the closest Australia gets to having a global city is Sydney. Even Sydney only just makes the grade and many debate this!

Dingo,

Go to Bangalore, India.

No jobs in Australia,

You need 5 things to get a job in IT

1. Recent Experience

This can be an interesting uni assignment if it has to be. But you need to have something to refer to in

2. A Killer CV

Dont bother with a cover page. Personal details, then skills (on the front page), then education and experience. Include long term but irrelevant casual work.

Make a super-resume that is about 5 pages long. Then tailor it down to three or four for every application. Include references (none of this "on request" rubbish). Give enough info that they are curious, but not enough that they can immediately judge say no. BE VAGUE IF YOU HAVE TO.

3. A Cover Letter

For a grad, its all in the cover letter. You need a killer cover letter. Again, have a superletter and tailor it. Mention you skills, and explain why you are good for the position (and why you arent, but how you can fix that, if there are gaps between what they want and what you are). Most important is mentioning the company and a few things about it. More than a page is too long. Less than half a page means you dont have enough. And keep a readable font size.

4. Uni results OR Contacts

Grads should ALWAYS include uni results in applications. But contacts are just as good (or better).

5. Luck

There will always be someone who wont like your resume style/content/format. But there will someone who likes it. Dont change it too much, and you will eventually luck onto someone who likes it.

If you liked, you could try this way....

1) register yourself as a temp staff and do whatever job they might offer you be it a data entry person. You'll never known what other opportunity might come up. I was lucky to get a well-paid data entry job for two months while I was still trying to land a perm job.

2) apply for a junior position job, something you think it's related to IT background you have. Remember, low paid job can progress up in a short time. I started off with quite a low salary package but got 20% pay rise twice within 18 months. This is the job I nearly rejected the offer because of a very low start salary; however, I got the assurance from the directors of the company that I could progress up. Now, I'm quite happy with my job and how I progress.

For the first time (in a long time) I can see some great contributions to Brainbox (forget about bingo's response - which sounds very familiar ...)

All these new names giving comprehensive, good advice.

I feel embarassed to think that these people have read other posts - along with the typical, degenerative responses - and for that I humbly apologise.

Please, please, please contribute more to brainbox as this could be a whole lot better that a series of one-line insults.

Lead by example.

Now ... back on topic ...

My workplace is using IBM to help deliver a large-ish project (as they do). In the meantime, a couple of "just out of uni" grads with their brand new suits have come on board as part of the IBM staff.

These two are part of a small group who have been selected by IBM from a very large pool of candidates.

They were pulled-out mid-way during their IBM induction to join out team and are absolutely wonderful. It would appear that they are the IBM "favourites".

Sure, they look very young but are confident, have a "can-do" attitude, are presentable and can "fit in" to our culture. They also get in early, contribute in meetings and can work with little supervision - although one did bring a USB-driven toy missile launcher ... but that story is for another day.

Part luck, part "make your own luck"...