average number of applicants for each position is 250

What? Surely all the "IT is booming" articles and heresay isn't just hype is it? :-)

I once got over 800 CVs when I advertised for IT graduate

Watch out. Macca will start to hurl insults around - btw, I believe the number.

I’m not interested in any other skills or experience that you have,

Sounds like a typical IT employer - why don't you hire a slave. oops a 457 visa holder that will tell you what you want to hear - stuck up pr1ck.

You might even lose the job if you are doing something that I think is a bit naff or stupid

Sorry boss, I haven't done my allotted 80 hours for you this week. Bad me. I'll make it up boss - honestly - I'll divorce my wife - no more seeing the kids....you can have my life - pr!ck.

If I want a C++ programmer, I’m not interested in how much Java you have done. Similarly, if I want a Java developer, I’m not interested in how much C++ you have done.

So you don't understand that OO principles are transportable across languages? Turd.

f you manage to get onto the pile created after the ‘thirty seconds per CV’ trawl,

At least the author is honest I suppose.

Sometimes my children will come and tell me that they can’t find all the objects that are hidden in the picture, and ask if I could find them for them.

Your potential client won’t give you that chance!

Words fail me. Sold your Mother lately? Kids? You sound like a complete WANKER. Still. a typical IT employer.

It just shows that the power is now in the hands of the employer who is using "very stringent" criteria, because he can.

Does anyone still believe there is a "desperate shortage" of IT people?

The attitude of whoever wrote this article is, well, disappointing. As it displays that some people expect to find top talent with little amount of investment.

The danger in re-writing your resume for particular job advert s is that after failing to obtain the job, recruiters put your resume on a database. So say a C++ job does come up, and you previously only specified your Java experience, you get overlooked.

Surely submitting different resumes for different jobs would surely raise concern from agents?

The article, does however, give evidence of something disturbing: Not allowing people to make horizontal moves in the industry will only hold-back innovation and economic growth.

If that's the criteria this person want's to use, then that's his problem.

Mind you, I generally don't think he is getting the best people by picking only 1st class honors people.

These people are either 1) excellent academically, or ones that studied 50hr+/wks without a life.

Here's a tip for all the to-be grads, hoping for a Grad program with a corporate.

The people who I know that got into Grad programs were average to above average (around the 70% mark). However ALL had considerable part-time work throughout uni. Those with little part-time work struggled to find work initially. I guess good employers value a balance, and put a value on being able to juggle uni and work commitments.

those with first class honours degrees in non-IT subjects.. I would have though for an IT position, even a second class honor in an IT course is better than an 1st class in a non-IT related degree, but I guess this guys values academic performance above everything.

UnemployeredITer, I have to agree with you on this one. It doesn't sound like an employer I'd work for either.

This is a another demonstration of how the NOW NOW NOW attitude in the commercial world is self defeating.

Too little time is dedicated to finding suitable candidates. Either the people doing the hiring are too lazy to do a good job, or the people managing the people doing the hiring don't give them enough time.

The company is making an investment of hundreds of thousands of dollars and they can't be bothered spending a few hundred to find the right person. They'd rather have the wrong person this week than the right person next week.

Well I better get started then its been over a week, un??pl??It?? if I was to pick your CV out of 800 without reading them, all I have to look for is the one with 30 pages with an work history from 1978 to 2000, 2000 would of been when you qualified for Non IT work like working for Johnny H.

Watch out. Macca will start to hurl insults around - btw, I believe the number

Macca.

I read this article for about 20 seconds and then I chucked it on the reject pile. It didnt seem to have anything that interested me. There were no pictures, diagrams or dot-points, so the writer must have communication problems.

Basically nothing really jumped out at me.

Filtering out 775 resumes out of 800 does not mean that you will end up hiring the wrong person, only that you are leaving out a few possible good ones. If in the rare occasion you only have wrong ones left - then you just have to dig through the 800 again. At the end of the day, the one hired will usually fit the job.

To all the people complaining about this bloke's methods... How would you do it?

How would you look through 800 resumes? Let alone pick the best 50 or whatever for a closer look?

Think before you criticise. And if you can't come up with a better way, keep your useless comments to your self.

MK, I have to disagree with you on the 1st Class Honours thing. Sounds to me like someone has a chip on their shoulder!

And while we're all making wholesale generalisations, I will say this: I think your average 1st class honours graduate will outperform the average 2nd class honous graduate or less. If that was not the case then why do employers make such a big deal about it?

Note I said on the average.

It's just another way of placing people into convenient categories.

I'll tell you how I would do it (and how I have done it).

I would rate each resume against the criteria I put in the advertisement. If any did not have the mandatory criteria as specified in the ad, I would reject them. Against each of the other criteria I would rate the strength of the skill as conveyed by the resume on a 1 to 5 scale. I would then add up each candidates score and short-list the top 5 scoring candidates for interview. Normally someone else would also do the same process and then we would compare notes.

This is the only professional way, and the only way that is fair to both the candidates and the business you are working for. It is not fair to specify certain requirements in the ad, and then use others (such as an honours degree) to select the candidate. If you are going to do this then you should have advertised "Honours graduates only should apply"

Rainer Sounds to me like someone has a chip on their shoulder

No chip. I just didn't have a 1st class, or even 2nd class honors. What I did have though was 20-25hr/wk of part-time work right through uni.

In all, I applied for 7 jobs in 3rd yr of uni (7 grad positions), and ended up in at least the 1st round of interviews in 4.

Maybe some employers do put more empasis on the academic performance.

Out of my group, no one got 1st class. Yet we had people get into all sorts of corp graduate positions. All worked at least 2days a week part-time somewhere.

No one gives a stuff what you got in uni a yr out from graduation, so I suppose good employers place value on more than just academic results.

Interestingly, if you look at the Grad applications, few have questions on academic merit. Most have all sorts of soft skills/team/situational questions. My interviewers had all but a quick 5sec glance at my academic results.

If that was not the case then why do employers make such a big deal about it? No idea?, how many people go on to be successful with no degree at all. Academic results are no measure of potential.

In a lot of cases uni is rubbish as it has NO relevance to the real world.

Phil E Stein,

A very sound method. BUT, do you have the time to do that to 800 resumes? The answer is probably not. So what would you do with the 800 resumes to whitle them down to a number small enough to apply your slection criteria to?

MK,

I agree. Your uni marks only matter at your first job interview. It's every man for himself after that.

You did however say that IT degrees were worth more than non IT ones, before shooting the whole argument down, and saying that uni is BS.

P.S. I finished 2 degrees with first class honours, while studying full time and working part time. Although I was only working 10-15 hours a week.

When I meet a recruiter it takes me about 2 seconds to catagorise them as wankers, spankers, useless or dopes.

On a more serious note! In the past I have read every resume that has crossed my desk - of course they were filtered before getting to me. I even read those from the Iraqis who had worked on weapons programs and nuclear stuff, and that was the early 90's, no 457 Visas then.

I think the 1st class honours selection procedure may be flawed, most people I know who achieved 1st class went on into academia, because thats what university is all about. Most were not the right personal type to fit into an actual 'out-there' business, they wanted research, not business.

One of the smartest programmers I worked with, bailed out at 3 years, took his pass degree and went onto some very interesting (ground breaking) computer programming. Another guy gave uni the shove half-way through third year to take up a specialised design job with a high-tech company.

In the end all you need to learn is how to play the game, you just need to figure out the rules.

Ranier, I was making the point that this article says that he would disregard people with Java skills for a C++ position, however would apparently take people with non-IT degrees just because they had good marks.

Ranier, I was making the point that this article says that he would disregard people with Java skills for a C++ position, however would apparently take people with non-IT degrees just because they had good marks.

The authors selection method is flawed in culling all who don't have 1st class honors.

Ranier, I believe at some point you also said that you initially found it hard to find grad work. Therefore the case in point is there is more of a correlation between part-time work and a good grad position, then between good marks and a good grad position. And the part-time work in no way needs to be relevent to the degree.

Dude, I'm just trying to help all the whingers out there.

I suppose 15 people is a small sample size, but 7 corporate grad positions in that group is going OK (average marks ~70%). And those ones that did no part-time work found it harder to find work, or found work at the low $30K mark.

You asked if I had 800, what I would do. I would cull the people who only had uni, and nothing outside of uni. This shows complete lazyness. I couldn't give a stuff about marks. Most people attend uni about 15hrs/wk. Uni is a bludge!.

I would also determine if they had IT interests outside of uni (ie, own website, etc). This might show a passion for IT more than the average uni grad. Finally, I would look at marks.

I saw recently that the average number of applicants for each position is 250.

Drop the quoted remuneration package by 25% - will cut the # of applicants by at least half - you'll still get a decent range of applicants, plenty of excellent candidates are willing to take up junior positions that pay peanuts (due to financial hardship, or possibly just to get some commercial experience in a particular area).

The 800 resumes is a mythical figure in this environment. If you have received 800 resumes for a job advertisement you are doing something wrong, or you have advertised a graduate position. If it is a grad position then experience is not really relevant and you have to select on academic performance.

I think "you've got to impress me in 30 seconds" is an arrogant and careless way to assess an application, while also expecting the candidate to have spent the time to individually tailor their resume to your requirements. It's an attitude of "My time is valuable, while yours is worth nothing". Remember they are dealing with peoples lives here.

This article originally appeared on the British contractor's website IT Contractor.

I don't think this article is nearly relevant for the Australian market, the Australian market has been bad for a long time, it has been alot worse than whatever is going on in the UK.

This talk of 800 resumes used to occur in Australia, about 5 years ago, the figures are alot less now.

Why? No work, for a long time.

It is an honest and pretty depressing article but take heart, the IT boom & bust cycle existed before and will exist again. The proof? This very article. By not taking the time, picking the right candidates and giving people "a fair go" employers and recruiters are creating the very conditions that create demand for skilled (or any) IT workers. How does that work:

- High flying graduates are equally not going to stick with dull jobs or poor conditions for very long;

- Over time students shun IT related degrees. No "normal" graduates creates a vacuum at the bottom of the market (similar to first home buyers) that builds over time, they go elsewhere (non IT) and never return;

- Despite the hype, off shoring and outsourcing generally doesn't work, ask the numerous companies bringing IT services back in-house. It's not a new phenomenon.

- India and China's explosive growth will ultimately require skilled workers that they can't provide themselves. I see this in my own area already - growing vacancies advertised internationally for companies based in India.

Anyone who was working in IT through the 80's & 90's will have seen this exact scenario being played out before. Greedy employers reduced graduate intakes as a result of the early 90's recession only to be left high and dry years later. The IT "boom" years were pretty much a direct result of that lack of foresight. Equally a bums-on-seats recruitment policy during the boom era saw people seeing IT as a lucrative career option... whether they knew one end of a computer from another. Supply and demand.

I'm confident it will all happen again, it's just a matter of time. Of course in the meantime that is no consolation to those struggling to get a job in the dog-eat-dog market, typified by this article.

I agree with some of the other in that some of Gerry's points are rubbish. You never customise your CV for a position. It's often the case that job ads are very limited in their description of the position, and some ads are inaccurate themselves. You could actually be limiting your chance of getting the job by only listing skills that match the ad.

The one point I would disagree on is that of graduates. Though really it's only anecdotal evidence, I would say your better off trading excellent marks, for good marks and at least 2 days part-time work in the real-world.

The guy who wrote this is a recruiter. Do you really think he has the best interests of his clients (the real employers) in mind?

He just wants to find a candidate in the shortest possible time, who looks good on paper. Then, he can make a hefty commission for very little effort.

Many years ago I was woking in the mining industry, it hit the wall, and the companies of course laid people off. This happened right across the industry, it effected everyone, including all the support and ancillary industries. Now the boom is back the mining industry is griping ovaer the lack of skilled workers right across the spectrum.

For most of us its a no-brainer that the experienced skills need to be retained during a bust cycle - so why cant the companies see this - well they can - they just don't actually care.

Firstly - WE ARE NOT IN THE BUSINESS OF WRITING RESUMES.

If I leave things out of my resume just to target the specific skills in the advert then how would the employer know of other services that I could provide in the future?

There have been many occasions this has happened and I have been asked why such skills were not on my resume.

Sorry but my resume contains ALL skills and experiences otherwise I would miss such oportunities wouldn't I?

Finally - anyone who cannot read or understand the contents of my resume will not have access to my services - period.

This would also indicate that they would have a problem reading technical documentation as well - and it is apparent that they can't do this either, otherwise they wouldn't ask you so many questions on issues that have been well described in the products documentation.

ITContractor.com

"The guy who wrote this is a recruiter. Do you really think he has the best interests of his clients (the real employers) in mind?"

That's incorrect. The guy that wrote it was an IT Contractor for 19 years. I can confirm that because I wrote it.

It came about when I was a contract Chief Information Officer for a Fuel Card company and I had to recruit a load of graduates.

I also got loads of CVs from contractors for various jobs.

If I had the time I would have considered them individually - but I hadn't.

I had to get it down to a reasonable number quickly. It's possible I lost out on the occasional really good person, but I suspected I got most of the good ones in my trawl.

It may be that you think that all CVs should be considered properly but this is the real world of managers who have time constraints.

It is best to address the world as it is and not as you think it should be.

This is a load of bs. What job attracted 250 applicants? In IT? How long was it advertised? When was it advertised? 4 years ago?

I remember advertising graduate/junior Apps Tester jobs back in 2002/2003 and we did get aout 150 applicants over 4 weeks. Now I advertise a graduate/junior Developer or Tester job and I get five Indians looking for a way in to the country and one or two very ordinary local candidates over the same period.

This article is not indicative of the way things currently are. I remember hearing all this back in 2002 when it was actually based on truths. It's easy to say "250 candidates applied for a job" without backing it up.

Employers scrounge for good resumes... this old attitude of binning good candidates because their resume format sucks DOES NOT hold true at the present.